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Thread: response to Tintweezl!

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#2, if you have never read the book, then obviously TT is a great movie.

I take exception to this. I've read the books many times and I think the movie's utterly awesome.

Before I start ranting, I want to say that the following is not directed at you specifically, Elfstone. You seem to be very respectful of other opinions and deserving of the same respect in return.

Rather, this is for those loonies who sound like their about to climb a clock tower and start picking off pedestrians with a high powered rifle over this movie.

I find myself very confused by some people's reactions. They seem to think that the film has some tangible effect on the book... as if the next time they pick up their beloved novel the story is going to have been rewritten to match the movie. Several people have said as much: "Peter Jackson wrecked the books!" and "I hate you PJ!!"

Jesus! Take a Xanax or a Trazodone or something!

And then there's the people who bash the movie simply so they can talk down to those who haven't read the books. They can't stand the idea of people proclaiming themselves Lord of the Rings fans without ever having read JRR's novel. It gives them some perverse pleasure to be able to look at someone and say "Ha! Your not a real Lord of the Rings fan like ME! I'm better than you, nya nya nya!" Elf Rolling Eyes Smilie

What I say to that is, GET OVER YOURSELF! It's one thing to be a fan; it's quite another to be a sociopathic zealot. If ya don't like it, don't watch it. Nobody will miss you at the theater.

[Edited on 12/24/2002 by ProgHead777]
For those of you who are as confused as I was about this thread when I first read it: This thread is Elfstone's response to Tintweezl's response to Elfstone's original TTT review, both of which can be found by clicking TTT Reviews under" LotR Movie(s)" in our menu there to the left. Now that's said:

Alright you guys, please keep your comments civil and about the movies, the books, or the other person's argument, and not about the education, IQ, or the number of human parents of your opponent in this debate.

Thank you. Moderator Smilie

And I'm not yelling at Prog, who was trying to calm things down. Happy Elf Smilie

[Edited on 24/12/2002 by Grondmaster]
Okay, I see I need to clear a couple of things up here. Prog, what I meant by that statement was that I was trying to be fair to the people who haven’t read the books, that’s why I gave the movie a higher overall rating. I definitely wasn’t trying to come across like I was bagging on, or talking down to people who haven’t read the books, and I definitely don’t have an I’m better than you are attitude when it comes to being a LOTR fan. It was not my intention for that statement to be offensive, and for that I apologize.

Also (not that I really feel that I need to), but just for the record, I would just like to state that I have never said that I hate Peter Jackson, for the better part of what he has accomplished so far, I appreciate what he has done immensely (he has given us a lot of things we otherwise would have never had). I’m not planning on going postal over the movie, and I don’t feel like climbing the clock tower at the University of Texas. I most certainly don’t think that PJ wrecked the books. That is entirely impossible! In fact, one of the first things my wife, and I said to each other as we were walking home from the theater after seeing TT for the first time was, ’Thank God we will always have the books!’ As I have stated elsewhere on this site, after seeing the movie for a second time, I have a much better feeling for the film as a whole. There are things that I like, and I’m thankful for them. I plan on seeing the movie again in a few days, and after seeing the link that Stonehelm posted concerning all of the unused material for TT, I remain highly optimistic about the special edition DVD. I also promise to keep all of my posts civil in the future, I just felt like someone wasted valuable review space to single me out, and this Elf needed to respond!
Elf Smilie
Fairly said Elfstone. Fat Santa Smilie

Quite fairly said, Elfstone Wink Smilie

I would like to reiterate that I was not directing those comments to you but to those who wrote particularly malicious reviews in the review section. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you didn't like the film that's absolutely fine... you can't please everyone.

But what bothers me is the people who insult those who DID like the movies. Especially those who have read the books. It's not fair to say that those who've read the books AND like the movies are somehow disrespecting Tolkien. It is my opinion that The Lord of the Rings (all three volumes combined as I can't seem to seperate them in my mind like some others: "TTT is my favorite of the three", etc.) is the greatest piece of fiction written in the 20th century....probably EVER.

So when some people imply that by liking PJ's films so far I'm somehow disrespecting Tolkien and his works... that REALLY burns me up So Angry Smilie

I just happen to think that when the third movie is finished and all is said and done, we'll have the greatest epic in film history on our hands. That's somehow appropriate, isn't it? The greatest novel begets the greatest film... even if it's not, indeed, BECAUSE it's not, a carbon copy of the novel.
The greatest novel begets the greatest film... even if it's not, indeed, BECAUSE it's not, a carbon copy of the novel.

Wrong, greatest novel was 1984, but the film versions are both a bit rubbish, and the greatest film epic is STILL the Star Wars trilogy (note trilogy please, not eps 1 and 2, they don't count) But I do love PJs movies, all of them, he's a great director. And I suppose the books are alright...Wink Smilie
*awaits rebuttal*
I've always been just a "casual" Star Wars fan so please excuse me if I disagree Wink Smilie

I've never read 1984 nor saw the movies. I based my statement on books that I've read and movies I've seen which is all anyone can do.

Based on that, nothing beats LotR. Period.
I based my statement on books that I've read and movies I've seen which is all anyone can do.
I recently read a Top 100 books of all time in one of the National Newspapers. The postAuthorID of the piece had failed to place LotR anywhere in the list. To me, he had written the entire list with the sole intention of making the point that he did not like LotR and it's success. It's omission just seemed too obvious to be anything but deliberate.
Prog, no worries, I know your comments weren’t specifically directed at me, and I have no problem with people who have read (and love) Tolkien’s works, and also enjoy PJ’s films. I must admit that PJ’S FOTR, (special extended DVD edition) has become my favorite film of all time (and that’s coming from a life-long, die-hard Star Wars fan). For my money, I also agree with you that the LOTR story is the greatest work of literature of all time (although, I’ve finally gotten around to reading the Silmarillion, and I’m already starting to feel like for me, this is it!). As you pointed out, I too hold out hope that when all is said, and done, we will be left with the greatest motion picture trilogy epic of all time. Also, in my humble opinion, anyone who doesn’t think that LOTR isn’t one of the top 100 books of all time needs to get a serious grasp on reality.
Cool Elf Smilie
I don't know books vs film versions eh! I always loved the old Dracula movies and so took out a copy of Bram Stokers original Dracula from the library. It is completely different from the films, so atmospheric it even gave me a nightmare. When you think about it arn't we lucky that we almost have two versions of LOTR (literary and film) to enjoy? I for one can still get out my old LOTR paperback and still use my own imagination when reading it and then watch the video of the film and enjoy that too.
I was rather dissapointed in the movie when comparing it to the book but if the book was not considered in the actual "grading" of the movie than it was a very good movie. But if I hope that P.J. was not trying to keep the movie as much alike as possible because if so it was a poor effort.
But if I hope that P.J. was not trying to keep the movie as much alike as possible because if so it was a poor effort

I'm sure PJ realized from the outset that a direct translation with zero liberties taken would be impossible. Just like translating language. Phraseology, sentence structure, Idioms and colloquialisms all have to be changed, sometimes drastically, in order for everything to retain its original meaning and feeling.

The same goes for adapting a novel to a screenplay. LotR was obviously not plotted as a screenplay so it's only reasonable that things will have to be changed. I'm sure PJ, Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens know this better than anyone at this point.
What is history but one persons version of a past event. If we are to treat middle earth as a real place with a real history then there will be different interpretations of events. I'm sure an orc's version of the LOTR would be very different than a hobbits. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you take Dracula (fiction I know) as an example, different directors have done completely different interpretations of the original book but have tried to stay true to the spirit And yet if you read the book I have never yet seen a film which follows it to the letter. By the way happy new year everyone.
I completely agree that books are almost always better than movies (every once and a while, there is a rare exception, so that’s why I say almost), and I have no problem whatsoever with directors doing different interpretations of a book, while trying to remain true to the original story that they are trying to translate. I think that what has caused all the fuss, is the fact that for the most part, FOTR was the exception to that norm. In my personal opinion, FOTR is probably the best translation from book to film that I have ever seen, and I think that the fact that TTT was such a radical departure script wise (in terms of following the true story), that it caught a lot of people off guard.
Elf Smilie
Rather, this is for those loonies who sound like their about to climb a clock tower and start picking off pedestrians with a high powered rifle over this movie

What me!
Down with the evil Peter Jones!
Oh yeh and 1984 is a brilliant book, the film isn't as good but it does have John Hurt in it.
Anything by Orwell seems to be brilliant