Welcome to Pt #1ElijahLover.

Could you please explain that last post a bit more? I haven't noticed any references, however subtle, to Christ in Tolkien's works, certainly nothing to let others come to know Christ.

Eru and the Valar in Tolkien's world are essentially gods, but their existence is never doubted and is documented as exact history. There is only one basic version of the story of creation in Arda, due to the fact that the early days, and the gods, were witnessed by some Elves, who were of course immortal. This is in contrast with the religions of our world.

Although Tolkien was a devout Catholic, it is debatable whether he intended his world to contain any religion in the true sense of the world, because all the creation stories he wrote were presented as factually as any others. After all, the main reason that he disliked the Arthurian mythology was that

I personally am not at all religious, simply because there is no proof of the fundament of the majority of religious beliefs. There is no element of doubt on the part of anyone, in Tolkiens stories, regarding the creation of the world and such.

Specific inclusion or reference to any known religion in his works would have greatly lessened their appeal to those not of that persuasion, be it Catholicism or any other.

If you can provide some background information, however, I shall be willing to reconsider my opinion.

See also my post in [url=http://www.planet-tolkien.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewthread&fid=25&postThreadID=49&page=6&orderdate=]this thread.

[Edited on 19/6/2003 by Peredhil]

Always good to keep a cool head about conversation topics. I myself can't find anything in Tolkien's works to be referencing to Christ either but I'd be interested to learn if there are such themes. Drawing on the most obvious of Biblical references is a good indication of religion in Silmarilion but I don't think I've noticed any others.

Welcome to our forum #1ElijahLover.

The problem with religious discussion is that we Christians in our enthusiasm can be perceived as arrogant and intolerant toward the beliefs of others be they of different denomination, religion, sect, or persuasion, even when our intent is otherwise. The Planet-Tolkien.com Council has thought it best to steer away from such discussions for this reason.

That there are thematic parallels between the written word of Tolkien and passages of the Bible is to be expected, as Joseph Campbell taught us, these thematic parallels can often be found in the great literature of all our world's cultures.

Elfstone digs down, and does his best Darth Vader imitation, ’Impressive, most impressive!’

First of all great response to this thread Anilorak, you really have been impressing me lately. Not to be lame, but most kids your age, don’t know s*%#! See how much smarter reading Tolkien makes us all!


Secondly, welcome to PT #1ElijahLover, I hope you stick around!


I agree with Val that there many recognizable religious themes present (the Creation, the Flood, the Exodus etc..), and Anilorak hit it right on the bull’s-eye as to what Tolkien’s intent was with these themes. I also believe that Tolkien’s Catholic upbringing played a part in this.

Anyway, anyone who is interested should check out the link below as it relates directly to this topic.

http://www.al.com/living/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/living/1056100924322890.xml

There was no offence caused by your post, #1ElijahLover. In the past, however, I have seen similar threads quickly get out of hand and cause upset to other members. From past experience, I posted my warning to curb any transgressions before they occurred.

I hope we continue to see you here at Planet Tolkien.

As someone who has read most reliogions holy books I see little resembelance to any of the Judiac religions. Yet I keep seeing people trying to say they see the resembelance. Please tell me where you see this resembalnce and enlighten us all?

Hi there #1Elijahlover!
If you really want to get into it, there is a book called J.R.R. Tolkien: Myth, Morality, and Religion by Richard L. Purtill that gets into more detail about it.
Here's the reviews on the book in case you do want to check it out: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/AVELCWFSK9R2G/1/ref%3Dcm%5Fmp%5Frv/103-5918042-0819057

Don't feel bad, ’ pats #1ElijahLover on back ’ at least your post has meaning to it, most of mine are babble and it's usually because I have nothing better to do!

Like Andrea, and Val have already said, don’t feel bad because you didn’t know at the time that for necessary reasons, religion, and political discussion are banned topics on the discussion board. When I first started posting here, I myself had no idea that such topics were banned, so again, please don’t feel bad. You certainly haven’t embarrassed yourself, so there’s no need to worry about that.

In a perfect World, it would be nice if we could all be able to discuss such topics in a rational, civilized manner, but as you get older, sadly you’re going to find that those two topics are very touchy, emotional topics for people, and people get very upset, mad, and get their feelings hurt when discussing these topics.

I’ll give you an example from my own life, I’m 32, and my wife is 29, and we have different political opinions and views than my wife’s parents (my in-laws). Her parents are very stubborn, and set in their ways when it comes to their political views. As a result we have learned that for the greater sake of harmony, that we can’t discuss politics with her parents, because it just ends up turning into a negative situation, that goes nowhere. My wife’s parents are in their late 50’s, and we’re all adults, so you would think that we could discuss such topics in a rational, adult-like manner, but again, sadly this is not the case. As you get older (and even now), you are going to begin to discover that the older some people get, the more like little children they act. I myself will always be a kid at heart.

Anyway, don’t get put off from posting here #1ElijahLover, because this is a really great website, and I think you will find that the majority of the people here, are all really kind, decent, honest, and sincere human beings. Hope to see you around!

thanx