Thread: WHAT?! AARRGGHHHH!
Now it looks to me, that when Theoden's party reaches Isengard, they find Sauman's body impaled on that spikey wheel that we first saw last year, and which we figured was a phony scene. So maybe he was pushed from the tower's balcony by Wormtongue or maybe he just slipped on a banana peel.
Now tell me, how in the H-E-double-toothpicks can PJ get Merry and Pippin back with Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas, include the palantir, and kill-off Saruman without Saruman? Do it with just narration; I doubt it? Okay, I suppose we could go to Isengard and just hear his voice from out of the window, but that isn't much in the way of cinematography.
Also, I heard from a source (I don't know if it's reliable) that PJ just deemed Saruman nonessential to the plot of RotK movie, and therefore he'd be left out of the movie. So loose threads are hanging; he doesn't even kill him off!
It's what I've heard. Anyway, he'll Probably include it in the extended cut. But WHY can't it make the theatrical? Just cut a few of the unneeded Gimli comic relief and the rebel Aragorn love triangle with Arwen and ’owyn, and there you go, you have the 7 min. for Saruman.
And Saruman was the character who most lived up to my expectations; in fact, he was almost identical to the vision of him I had of him while reading the book. A waste of film. A waste.
I will skip his third and hopefully last abomination - i am done with the smug. I've had enough of his non sense, just the books for me, thank you.
More Matrix, more some other movies................so dont be scared go and look it and then ....then you can scream,and if you can wait, then wait 2 days. I think we have then some good critics here.............so you can dicede.....to go or not to ge. (to be or not to be *funny*)
So what if he leaves Saruman out of RoTK? the movie will still be the best of all three, maybe not the one that is more faithful to the books, but looking at it like a movie, not comparing it at all to the books, it will be the best of all three, and you'll probably enjoy it more if you look at it that way instead of seeing "a movie that is not fathful to the books"
To me, Sauraman wasn't a insanely important part of LotR. Sauron is the real bad guy, and Sauraman was just a little power-hungry warmonger trying to get a few scraps from the real master-mind of evil. Keep him out of the movie, I say. At least the real fans know what really happens.
I'm feeling sadistic today, so if my post is out of character for me, it really is.
I'll try and get back to this thread sometime in the next couple of days, but in short, I'm far from pleased.
To those who say "This is but an adaption, What do you expect? There must be compromises." I say some compromises - yes, but why make a film based off a well known book if your are going to leave possibly the most crucial elements out? I am a writer, filmmaker and actor. I know that it's one's own integrity that keeps a film adaption's integrity. You can't satisfy everyone in making a film adaption because we do all see things differently. The best that you can do is stay as true as ability allows and don't change major factors. PJ has changed major factors. Either in arrogance, in to much compromise or for the sake of money. From an integrity POV, none of those reasons are acceptable.
In FOTR, he made Aragorn (and all men) far too weak and he a man running from his responsibility. Something that he never does and demeans his character. If you say, "well, their were trying to make him more human, easier to relate to." I say no. He is not wholly human. He is a man of Numenor, with strains of Elven and Maiar in him and better than human by his Lineage and Nature. Lineage and Nature are important aspects to Tolkien in LOTR. It was Llike PJ was saying, "Elves are beautiful and cool, Hobbits are cute and cool, Dwarves are stout and cool... Oh, and Men just suck.
With TTT, he does a phenomenal job with Gollum, but he completely fails in his representation of Faramir and now demotes and demeans Gimli to mere comic relief. What many people fail to realize is the importance of Faramir as a character and what he represents. He is the Best that Men have to offer and it's pretty darn wonderful. He is not of the Nature of Aragorn, yet he is so close to him in Nobility as the quality cannot be demeaned. In the book, he wholly resists the temptation of the Ring. He is the only Man to do so and nearly the only other Mortal, Samwise being the other. Even Saruman falls to it's temptation and he is a Maiar in human form. Even Gandalf fears it's temptation. So, in doing what they did in the film the demean Faramir and the postBody that Tolkien says through him: Value and endevor to attain the best in your Nature the qualities of Virtue, Integrity and Truthfulness.
Finally, If he leaves out the scouring of the Shire and the death of Saruman, we miss the idea of the growth attained in the Hobbits, which represent common folk, from their Heroic journey and discovery of there own strengths and abilities. Also, we miss the consequence of the fall of Saruman through Pride and Arrogance. He was once great but he belived he could be master of all, following the examples of Melkor and Sauron, but like them it led to him demeaning himself and his own bitter ending.
So, there you are. If you wish to pay attention lessons about living life and developing ourselves that can be learned in these stories, set in a mythic vein. Which, in the end, myths were for in the first place. In leaving these things out, PJ lessons the value on the whole of the idea.
For the most part I feel the films are wonderful, but he could have kept more integrity and made them better.
Lord of the Cutting Room Floor
"The Lord of the Rings" fans hoping to see the apocalyptic battle between Gandalf and Saruman in Peter Jackson's upcoming "The Return of the King" will be disappointed.
The climactic seven-minute wizard war has fallen to the cutting room floor, upsetting actor Christopher Lee who portrays Saruman the White, according to British media sources.
"Of course I am very shocked. That's all I can say," Lee tells UK's television show "This Morning."
The 81-year-old actor is bewildered at the decision to cut the scene, since the battle finishes a confrontation that was begun in the first film of the series, "The Fellowship of the Ring," and also has far-reaching plot implications.
Fans of Lee have already begun a petition online requesting that Jackson reinstate the scene and therefore stay true to J.R.R. Tolkien's novel.
What's this about a petition? I'll sign it
What's this about a petition?
The only things that were harmed during that confrontation were Saruman's staff, his reputation (as seen through the eyes of the onlookers), and Orthanc's doorstep where the Palantir bounced towards Pippin.
It still hasn't sunk in my head yet that PJ killed off Saruman......I'm completely flabbergasted right now. Up until now, I've actually liked everything, and I haven't really complained about anything yet but THIS......thias is just waaaaaay too much! He crossed the line now!! I just hope it's not true. I mean, you can't just have a pivotal character disappear for no (insert curse word here) reason!!!!!!! What a bummer!
I agree on this. I was ok with it up until now. I was a little ticked here and there with some things... but this is ridiculus! Crazy people... ARGH! Beyond words right now!
Man... I'm still going to go see it, I didn't turn my bedroom wall into a RotK countdown thing for nothing! (By the way I think it's 31 days as of this post)
I only sign the petition to incarcerate PJ and ban all his movies in all countries except Mongolia.
That must be a rhetorical question in order to keep politics off the board; it just hit me as being a funny reply, sorry.
Secondly... how will PJ get the pieces of what's left of Tolkien's story together? Without Saruman, how will Pippin get the Palantir? Will he just find it on the ground or what? How will Aragorn talk to Sauron through the palantir? How will he put up with the demands of an audience who wants to know what happened to Saruman? It's not like he was wiped out, I mean, he still has his tower in TTT. That's atleast something. And he continues on from that, he goes to the Shire where he has built up a new little Isengard, but by corrupting halflings instead. Even though I know there won't be a scouring of the Shire it still upsets me that he cuts Saruman out completely. He is still a major character.
And how will we know that Gandalf now is the leader of the Istari? Will he just proclaim it himself? That doesn't seem like the Gandalf I read about. Man... I had just worked up an interest for the movie and now I am just waiting to get disappointed. Still, I want to see PJ wrap this up nicely. He started this "adaption" of the books, let's atleast let him finish it before we jump to conclusions. Miracles still happens, right? ...right..?
My greatest question is how Pj is going to solve the Arwen-Aragorn-Eowyn romance which came right out of the Bold and the Beautiful. I'll have a good laugh for sure!
Ah well, curious how pj is gonna solve it in Rotbk. And about eowyn and faramir : that should be a good laugh too, since both are acting terribly in the flicks.
Also, it turns out that Jackson and the guys at WETA etc. read this stuff, and it led to Arwen being left out at Helm's Deep, so if you lot whinge enough (which you will) it will get put back in.
Personally I don't think it matters a toss whether it's in or not, it's non-essential to the battle at Minas Tirith, and the ring quest, which is what we all really want to see work out, so who really cares? I know who, the people who get to see it next year on the extended version.
Once again i say unto thee STOP WHINING! You knew it was gonna change, so be like Vir and don't watch it, or watch it and enjoy it for what it is.
Besides... "Awwwww! I was gonna go to Tachi Station and get some power converters!!!"
My true geekdom now fully exposed, I expect to be branded, flogged and run out of town... or at least off the farm...
My true geekdom now fully exposed, I expect to be branded, flogged and run out of town... or at least off the farm...
I'm sure the movie will still be great!
You know, honestly, I would have really been able to swallow the rest much more easily if he hadn't fouled up Faramir so... That was one of the most important things to me.
Now, I'm in a bind. I want to own the TTT EE for the extra good parts and the bonus features, but PJ fouled up Faramir even more in it... I protest the changes and want my protest to be felt and heard. The best way to do that is to boycott the DVD... But I REALLY want to own it for the good parts... As Samwise said: "I'm that torn in two."
but PJ fouled up Faramir even more in it...
I protest the changes and want my protest to be felt and heard. The best way to do that is to boycott the DVD...
Hey, to the powers that be here, i have heard that PJ might be chacking out this site sometimes and reading our comments. Does anyone know if it's true or not and Are there any sites that it is know that he does read or a way/place I could email a critisism with some chance of it hitting his eyes?
[Edited on 3/12/2003 by Glorfinel]
i have heard that PJ might be chacking out this site sometimes and reading our comments. Does anyone know if it's true or not and Are there any sites that it is know that he does read
If he has come here, he has been welcomed just as have all new comers and has been subjected to both the barbs and the kudos that we have written here. There were a couple posts made by female members that I've felt might have been written by one of his writers. This was months ago, and on purpose I have forgotten who made them or which posts they were; I gave them a pass on this, not wishing to subject them to any unnecessary online adoration or harassment.
[Edited on 3/12/2003 by Grondmaster]
Since this needs alot of people to perform...
Just write a recruiting PM to me and I will see if you are enough anti-PJ to be in my squad......cheers