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Welcome back Glorfinel. Happy Elf Smilie

Now it looks to me, that when Theoden's party reaches Isengard, they find Sauman's body impaled on that spikey wheel that we first saw last year, and which we figured was a phony scene. So maybe he was pushed from the tower's balcony by Wormtongue or maybe he just slipped on a banana peel. Elf Sticking Tounge Out Smilie
All I can tell you is the News Article that I posted on the home page.

Now tell me, how in the H-E-double-toothpicks can PJ get Merry and Pippin back with Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas, include the palantir, and kill-off Saruman without Saruman? Do it with just narration; I doubt it? Okay, I suppose we could go to Isengard and just hear his voice from out of the window, but that isn't much in the way of cinematography. Angry Elf Smilie
Mad Smilie Will PJ delete EVERYTHING I was looking forward to, like in TTT??

Also, I heard from a source (I don't know if it's reliable) that PJ just deemed Saruman nonessential to the plot of RotK movie, and therefore he'd be left out of the movie. So loose threads are hanging; he doesn't even kill him off!
It's what I've heard. Anyway, he'll Probably include it in the extended cut. But WHY can't it make the theatrical? Just cut a few of the unneeded Gimli comic relief and the rebel Aragorn love triangle with Arwen and ’owyn, and there you go, you have the 7 min. for Saruman. Wink Smilie

And Saruman was the character who most lived up to my expectations; in fact, he was almost identical to the vision of him I had of him while reading the book. A waste of film. A waste. So Angry Smilie
Pfft, who cares what PJ does : it will attract millions of ignorant and naieve viewers anyway. So he can afford to do whatever he wants - he will have his money in his pocket.

I will skip his third and hopefully last abomination - i am done with the smug. I've had enough of his non sense, just the books for me, thank you.
What if this was a promoten thing??>maybe it is not true and Lee only said this to get Lord of the Rings in the press again, then look which movies are talk in the press.............not very much LotR or RtoK what ever you want.

More Matrix, more some other dont be scared go and look it and then ....then you can scream,and if you can wait, then wait 2 days. I think we have then some good critics you can go or not to ge. (to be or not to be *funny*)

This sounds like a big promotional stunt to me, to get people to buy the extended version when it's released in a year's time. If he's not killed off at Isengard, which is what most of us have been expecting, it'll leave the hope of seeing a Scouring of the Shire in the extended DVD.
I belive you are asking a bit too much from PJ. If it is true that he cut off Saruman from the RoTK, then what's the big deal. The movies are an adaptation of the books, not the books thenself. You cannot hope for a movie be just the way you pictured the scenes in yout ming while you were reading the book, there is no way that can happen. And I am really sorry to disagree with a lot of you here, but I think the main plot of the RoTK is not Saruman. Maybe he commit a mistake in leaving a lot of scenes out of TTT and try to put them into the RoTK, but there is something that you have to admire from PJ, he did a h**l of a movie considering the little money (and I say little money because there is no other movie director that would have considered even trying to do the films with the money they gave PJ) he had. Have you seen PJ's first movie? it's a really bad movie if you look at it from the perspective of the movie standarts we have now, and even for the standarts people had by hte time it was released, but that movie, was awsome considering the little money he had, he filmed that movie on his house backyard, using some friends as extras and himself as two characters.
So what if he leaves Saruman out of RoTK? the movie will still be the best of all three, maybe not the one that is more faithful to the books, but looking at it like a movie, not comparing it at all to the books, it will be the best of all three, and you'll probably enjoy it more if you look at it that way instead of seeing "a movie that is not fathful to the books"
I once thought this was a promo thing also; but is there any hope that PJ and Lee are saying this for attention even though the Saruman stuff WILL be in the movie? I mean, COULD it be that this is all for stunt and the stuff'll be in the film, and Lee's boycotting the film for LotR attention? I mean, I hope so, but I don't know the odds for that happening. Anyone have any idea of the probability, and if it's over 0% ? (Still hoping here).

I never like Sauraman anyway, so I don't care if he is in the movie or not. The only part I am really looking forward to in the movie is when Aragorn calls in his little favor and the ghost spirits help him fight. If they don't have that part, PJ missed an awesomly good opprotunity for some great special effects.

To me, Sauraman wasn't a insanely important part of LotR. Sauron is the real bad guy, and Sauraman was just a little power-hungry warmonger trying to get a few scraps from the real master-mind of evil. Keep him out of the movie, I say. At least the real fans know what really happens.

I'm feeling sadistic today, so if my post is out of character for me, it really is.

Well I definitely have a lot more to say about this, but I'm short on time, and my computer has been down for almost a week, so I have tons of other things I'm trying to get caught up on at the moment.

I'll try and get back to this thread sometime in the next couple of days, but in short, I'm far from pleased.
So Angry Smilie
Oh well, it is about time that you guys come back to earth and realize that PJ made a mess.
When I first found out that there wouldn't be Scouring Of The Shire and Saruman's death there, I hoped that there would be at least his death scene at Isengard like what supposedly will come out. To not have him at all in the third movie is really unsatisfying and not just for book fans who of course know what really happens, but also for movie fans who have been fed with the idea that Saruman is almost as evil as Sauron, from the breeding of Uruk-Hais to the Helm's Deep battle. I think we all want to know what happens to the bad guys, considering that they aren't as many as the good ones. But it isn't surprising that there would be a lot of scenes cut as a result of trying to fit half of TTT in ROTK.
Ahhhh... PJ, I'm so disappointed to hear what he may be doing. As wonderful as these films are for the most part, it seems to me that he can't make any one of these adaptions with out really messing some important element up. And, if the rumors are true, thus continues his arrogance or misguidance.

To those who say "This is but an adaption, What do you expect? There must be compromises." I say some compromises - yes, but why make a film based off a well known book if your are going to leave possibly the most crucial elements out? I am a writer, filmmaker and actor. I know that it's one's own integrity that keeps a film adaption's integrity. You can't satisfy everyone in making a film adaption because we do all see things differently. The best that you can do is stay as true as ability allows and don't change major factors. PJ has changed major factors. Either in arrogance, in to much compromise or for the sake of money. From an integrity POV, none of those reasons are acceptable.

In FOTR, he made Aragorn (and all men) far too weak and he a man running from his responsibility. Something that he never does and demeans his character. If you say, "well, their were trying to make him more human, easier to relate to." I say no. He is not wholly human. He is a man of Numenor, with strains of Elven and Maiar in him and better than human by his Lineage and Nature. Lineage and Nature are important aspects to Tolkien in LOTR. It was Llike PJ was saying, "Elves are beautiful and cool, Hobbits are cute and cool, Dwarves are stout and cool... Oh, and Men just suck.

With TTT, he does a phenomenal job with Gollum, but he completely fails in his representation of Faramir and now demotes and demeans Gimli to mere comic relief. What many people fail to realize is the importance of Faramir as a character and what he represents. He is the Best that Men have to offer and it's pretty darn wonderful. He is not of the Nature of Aragorn, yet he is so close to him in Nobility as the quality cannot be demeaned. In the book, he wholly resists the temptation of the Ring. He is the only Man to do so and nearly the only other Mortal, Samwise being the other. Even Saruman falls to it's temptation and he is a Maiar in human form. Even Gandalf fears it's temptation. So, in doing what they did in the film the demean Faramir and the postBody that Tolkien says through him: Value and endevor to attain the best in your Nature the qualities of Virtue, Integrity and Truthfulness.

Finally, If he leaves out the scouring of the Shire and the death of Saruman, we miss the idea of the growth attained in the Hobbits, which represent common folk, from their Heroic journey and discovery of there own strengths and abilities. Also, we miss the consequence of the fall of Saruman through Pride and Arrogance. He was once great but he belived he could be master of all, following the examples of Melkor and Sauron, but like them it led to him demeaning himself and his own bitter ending.

So, there you are. If you wish to pay attention lessons about living life and developing ourselves that can be learned in these stories, set in a mythic vein. Which, in the end, myths were for in the first place. In leaving these things out, PJ lessons the value on the whole of the idea.

For the most part I feel the films are wonderful, but he could have kept more integrity and made them better.
I'm not angry,I have no expectations of the coming Return of the King. I'll be seeing it no matter how many people tell me it socks. Smile Smilie
This was in my local small-town newspaper:

Lord of the Cutting Room Floor

"The Lord of the Rings" fans hoping to see the apocalyptic battle between Gandalf and Saruman in Peter Jackson's upcoming "The Return of the King" will be disappointed.
The climactic seven-minute wizard war has fallen to the cutting room floor, upsetting actor Christopher Lee who portrays Saruman the White, according to British media sources.
"Of course I am very shocked. That's all I can say," Lee tells UK's television show "This Morning."
The 81-year-old actor is bewildered at the decision to cut the scene, since the battle finishes a confrontation that was begun in the first film of the series, "The Fellowship of the Ring," and also has far-reaching plot implications.
Fans of Lee have already begun a petition online requesting that Jackson reinstate the scene and therefore stay true to J.R.R. Tolkien's novel.

What's this about a petition? I'll sign it Tongue Smilie
What's this about a petition?
Who gives a rats elbow! There shouldn't have been any seven minute wizard war and if PJ filmed one, then it belongs on the cutting room floor. Tolkien didn't write about a wizard war in any of his books. Their final confrontation was merely a task Gandalf had to perform in the line of duty: to give Saruman his pink slip letting him know his services were no longer required.

The only things that were harmed during that confrontation were Saruman's staff, his reputation (as seen through the eyes of the onlookers), and Orthanc's doorstep where the Palantir bounced towards Pippin. Wiggle Smilie
It still hasn't sunk in my head yet that PJ killed off Saruman......I'm completely flabbergasted right now. Up until now, I've actually liked everything, and I haven't really complained about anything yet but THIS......thias is just waaaaaay too much! He crossed the line now!! I just hope it's not true. I mean, you can't just have a pivotal character disappear for no (insert curse word here) reason!!!!!!! Shocked Smilie What a bummer! Bad! Smilie

I agree on this. I was ok with it up until now. I was a little ticked here and there with some things... but this is ridiculus! Crazy people... ARGH! Beyond words right now!
Man... I'm still going to go see it, I didn't turn my bedroom wall into a RotK countdown thing for nothing! (By the way I think it's 31 days as of this post)
Bad! Smilie
I think a confrontation between the wizards would be better than completely remove Saruman from the picture! If PJ does that, give me the petition: I'll sign it!!!

I only sign the petition to incarcerate PJ and ban all his movies in all countries except Mongolia.
I only sign the petition to incarcerate PJ and ban all his movies in all countries except Mongolia.
So virumor, what have you got against the Mongolians? Elf Winking Smilie

That must be a rhetorical question in order to keep politics off the board; it just hit me as being a funny reply, sorry. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
OK, first of all, great post Glorfinel. I agree on you with my entire heart.

Secondly... how will PJ get the pieces of what's left of Tolkien's story together? Without Saruman, how will Pippin get the Palantir? Will he just find it on the ground or what? How will Aragorn talk to Sauron through the palantir? How will he put up with the demands of an audience who wants to know what happened to Saruman? It's not like he was wiped out, I mean, he still has his tower in TTT. That's atleast something. And he continues on from that, he goes to the Shire where he has built up a new little Isengard, but by corrupting halflings instead. Even though I know there won't be a scouring of the Shire it still upsets me that he cuts Saruman out completely. He is still a major character.

And how will we know that Gandalf now is the leader of the Istari? Will he just proclaim it himself? That doesn't seem like the Gandalf I read about. Man... I had just worked up an interest for the movie and now I am just waiting to get disappointed. Still, I want to see PJ wrap this up nicely. He started this "adaption" of the books, let's atleast let him finish it before we jump to conclusions. Miracles still happens, right? ...right..?
PJ will think of something for sure, as he hasn't used any of the pieces of Tolkien's works. After all, he has made just an adaptation/abomination of Tolkien's works.

My greatest question is how Pj is going to solve the Arwen-Aragorn-Eowyn romance which came right out of the Bold and the Beautiful. I'll have a good laugh for sure!
well in TTT Extended version it does appear as if Aragorn is in love with Arwen and doesn't care for Eowyn that way at all. Although Eowyn seems completely head over heels in love with him, almost to desperation, even before she learn who he is. Ah well, we'll see. Hopefully he doesn't make a mess of the Eowyn-Faramir story.
Aragorn appears to be in love with ARwen in that flick??, heh, what a change then, since in the cinematic version the lad dumped her, well he said that what they had was a dream or something soppy like that, and he appeared to think his spoiled she-elf was heading for the gray havens.

Ah well, curious how pj is gonna solve it in Rotbk. And about eowyn and faramir : that should be a good laugh too, since both are acting terribly in the flicks.
Yet more dung for me to fire at Peter Jackson's name. Let us all hunt him down and string him up by the niblets!
But we already knew that the Scouring wasn't going to be in already right? And that's the onlt bit of the Book that Saruman is in right? SO what's the big deal?
*whistles nonchalantly*
Also, it turns out that Jackson and the guys at WETA etc. read this stuff, and it led to Arwen being left out at Helm's Deep, so if you lot whinge enough (which you will) it will get put back in.
Personally I don't think it matters a toss whether it's in or not, it's non-essential to the battle at Minas Tirith, and the ring quest, which is what we all really want to see work out, so who really cares? I know who, the people who get to see it next year on the extended version.
Once again i say unto thee STOP WHINING! You knew it was gonna change, so be like Vir and don't watch it, or watch it and enjoy it for what it is.
*But I like whiniiiinnnnng!!!!* Lighening Smilie

Besides... "Awwwww! I was gonna go to Tachi Station and get some power converters!!!"

My true geekdom now fully exposed, I expect to be branded, flogged and run out of town... or at least off the farm... Big Smile Smilie
Not on this site you won't! Big Smile Smilie
My true geekdom now fully exposed, I expect to be branded, flogged and run out of town... or at least off the farm... Big Smile Smilie
Not for liking Star Wars (Episodes I and II excepted); however, if you overload the Grondy Gripe Gauge you might be. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Geekdom, oh yeah, mine too for not having to think twice about where that came from. Nice one Glor!
This ain't like dusting crops boy.
Just for anybody's info, 41128 people actually signed the petition to bring back Saruman's scene in ROTK, but it didn't make much difference because PJ had already given the final cut to New Line and had the world premiere on 1 Dec.
Holy man that's a lot of people! Well, not that many once you think about all the people in the world... but still...
I'm sure the movie will still be great!
Ah, Andrea. I sincerely hope that you are right... However, I see the arrival of PJ's Final installment with more and more trepidation with every new thing that I hear...

You know, honestly, I would have really been able to swallow the rest much more easily if he hadn't fouled up Faramir so... That was one of the most important things to me.

Now, I'm in a bind. I want to own the TTT EE for the extra good parts and the bonus features, but PJ fouled up Faramir even more in it... I protest the changes and want my protest to be felt and heard. The best way to do that is to boycott the DVD... But I REALLY want to own it for the good parts... As Samwise said: "I'm that torn in two."
I'm biased, but I'd suggest you buy it. There's much more good than bad, in my opinion. :P
but PJ fouled up Faramir even more in it...
I think the Extended DVD's flashback showing the various relationships between Denethor, Faramir, and Boromir helped explain the film's Faramir satisfactorily to me; and I was one of those crying out against the sacriledge PJ committed against Faramir's character. I'm satisfied now, and the Extended DVD even made more sense to me about Denethor's subsequent confrontations with Faramir, in Tolkien's RotK.
I protest the changes and want my protest to be felt and heard. The best way to do that is to boycott the DVD...
I think the only person who will really lose out then will be yourself, Glorfinel. New Line will sell so many DVDs (many to people who have never even picked up the book) that your protest and sacrifice will go totally unnoticed. Apparently PJ reads fan's comments from the web. The best way to get your protests noticed is to voice them over a wide selection of forum boards. That way you get to make yourself heard, and you get to see the good bits.
Hmmm... Well... I have great respect for many folks here at PT. Val and Grondy standing among the very great... After much thought, I decided to go and get it. I also heard that there was some explanation on why PJ did what he did and I want to see what his reasoning was. However, to mitigate my ambivilence some, I also got the Matrix: Reload, And Pirates of the Carribean as I have no ambiviltent feelings on those.

Hey, to the powers that be here, i have heard that PJ might be chacking out this site sometimes and reading our comments. Does anyone know if it's true or not and Are there any sites that it is know that he does read or a way/place I could email a critisism with some chance of it hitting his eyes?


[Edited on 3/12/2003 by Glorfinel]
i have heard that PJ might be chacking out this site sometimes and reading our comments. Does anyone know if it's true or not and Are there any sites that it is know that he does read
I'm sure any sites PJ checks out for what the fans of both his movies and Tolkien's books, as well as his diehard naysayers are saying about his films, will remain unannounced, so that the subsequent comments are not weighted one way or another, but are more spontaneous.

If he has come here, he has been welcomed just as have all new comers and has been subjected to both the barbs and the kudos that we have written here. There were a couple posts made by female members that I've felt might have been written by one of his writers. This was months ago, and on purpose I have forgotten who made them or which posts they were; I gave them a pass on this, not wishing to subject them to any unnecessary online adoration or harassment.

[Edited on 3/12/2003 by Grondmaster]
Well they can forget my money...I’m not paying for that piece of crap! Rather just go to the editors desk and just burn it to the ground so that it will never see daylight ever!!!

Since this needs alot of people to perform...

Just write a recruiting PM to me and I will see if you are enough anti-PJ to be in my squad......cheersWink Smilie