Welcome back Glorfinel.

Now it looks to me, that when Theoden's party reaches Isengard, they find Sauman's body impaled on that spikey wheel that we first saw last year, and which we figured was a phony scene. So maybe he was pushed from the tower's balcony by Wormtongue or maybe he just slipped on a banana peel.

Will PJ delete EVERYTHING I was looking forward to, like in TTT??

Also, I heard from a source (I don't know if it's reliable) that PJ just deemed Saruman nonessential to the plot of RotK movie, and therefore he'd be left out of the movie. So loose threads are hanging; he doesn't even kill him off!
It's what I've heard. Anyway, he'll Probably include it in the extended cut. But WHY can't it make the theatrical? Just cut a few of the unneeded Gimli comic relief and the rebel Aragorn love triangle with Arwen and ’owyn, and there you go, you have the 7 min. for Saruman.

And Saruman was the character who most lived up to my expectations; in fact, he was almost identical to the vision of him I had of him while reading the book. A waste of film. A waste.

What if this was a promoten thing??>maybe it is not true and Lee only said this to get Lord of the Rings in the press again, then look which movies are talk in the press.............not very much LotR or RtoK what ever you want.

More Matrix, more some other movies................so dont be scared go and look it and then ....then you can scream,and if you can wait, then wait 2 days. I think we have then some good critics here.............so you can dicede.....to go or not to ge. (to be or not to be *funny*)

Nessa

I belive you are asking a bit too much from PJ. If it is true that he cut off Saruman from the RoTK, then what's the big deal. The movies are an adaptation of the books, not the books thenself. You cannot hope for a movie be just the way you pictured the scenes in yout ming while you were reading the book, there is no way that can happen. And I am really sorry to disagree with a lot of you here, but I think the main plot of the RoTK is not Saruman. Maybe he commit a mistake in leaving a lot of scenes out of TTT and try to put them into the RoTK, but there is something that you have to admire from PJ, he did a h**l of a movie considering the little money (and I say little money because there is no other movie director that would have considered even trying to do the films with the money they gave PJ) he had. Have you seen PJ's first movie? it's a really bad movie if you look at it from the perspective of the movie standarts we have now, and even for the standarts people had by hte time it was released, but that movie, was awsome considering the little money he had, he filmed that movie on his house backyard, using some friends as extras and himself as two characters.
So what if he leaves Saruman out of RoTK? the movie will still be the best of all three, maybe not the one that is more faithful to the books, but looking at it like a movie, not comparing it at all to the books, it will be the best of all three, and you'll probably enjoy it more if you look at it that way instead of seeing "a movie that is not fathful to the books"

I never like Sauraman anyway, so I don't care if he is in the movie or not. The only part I am really looking forward to in the movie is when Aragorn calls in his little favor and the ghost spirits help him fight. If they don't have that part, PJ missed an awesomly good opprotunity for some great special effects.

To me, Sauraman wasn't a insanely important part of LotR. Sauron is the real bad guy, and Sauraman was just a little power-hungry warmonger trying to get a few scraps from the real master-mind of evil. Keep him out of the movie, I say. At least the real fans know what really happens.

I'm feeling sadistic today, so if my post is out of character for me, it really is.

C’no

Oh well, it is about time that you guys come back to earth and realize that PJ made a mess.

Ahhhh... PJ, I'm so disappointed to hear what he may be doing. As wonderful as these films are for the most part, it seems to me that he can't make any one of these adaptions with out really messing some important element up. And, if the rumors are true, thus continues his arrogance or misguidance.

To those who say "This is but an adaption, What do you expect? There must be compromises." I say some compromises - yes, but why make a film based off a well known book if your are going to leave possibly the most crucial elements out? I am a writer, filmmaker and actor. I know that it's one's own integrity that keeps a film adaption's integrity. You can't satisfy everyone in making a film adaption because we do all see things differently. The best that you can do is stay as true as ability allows and don't change major factors. PJ has changed major factors. Either in arrogance, in to much compromise or for the sake of money. From an integrity POV, none of those reasons are acceptable.

In FOTR, he made Aragorn (and all men) far too weak and he a man running from his responsibility. Something that he never does and demeans his character. If you say, "well, their were trying to make him more human, easier to relate to." I say no. He is not wholly human. He is a man of Numenor, with strains of Elven and Maiar in him and better than human by his Lineage and Nature. Lineage and Nature are important aspects to Tolkien in LOTR. It was Llike PJ was saying, "Elves are beautiful and cool, Hobbits are cute and cool, Dwarves are stout and cool... Oh, and Men just suck.

With TTT, he does a phenomenal job with Gollum, but he completely fails in his representation of Faramir and now demotes and demeans Gimli to mere comic relief. What many people fail to realize is the importance of Faramir as a character and what he represents. He is the Best that Men have to offer and it's pretty darn wonderful. He is not of the Nature of Aragorn, yet he is so close to him in Nobility as the quality cannot be demeaned. In the book, he wholly resists the temptation of the Ring. He is the only Man to do so and nearly the only other Mortal, Samwise being the other. Even Saruman falls to it's temptation and he is a Maiar in human form. Even Gandalf fears it's temptation. So, in doing what they did in the film the demean Faramir and the postBody that Tolkien says through him: Value and endevor to attain the best in your Nature the qualities of Virtue, Integrity and Truthfulness.

Finally, If he leaves out the scouring of the Shire and the death of Saruman, we miss the idea of the growth attained in the Hobbits, which represent common folk, from their Heroic journey and discovery of there own strengths and abilities. Also, we miss the consequence of the fall of Saruman through Pride and Arrogance. He was once great but he belived he could be master of all, following the examples of Melkor and Sauron, but like them it led to him demeaning himself and his own bitter ending.

So, there you are. If you wish to pay attention lessons about living life and developing ourselves that can be learned in these stories, set in a mythic vein. Which, in the end, myths were for in the first place. In leaving these things out, PJ lessons the value on the whole of the idea.

For the most part I feel the films are wonderful, but he could have kept more integrity and made them better.

This was in my local small-town newspaper:



What's this about a petition? I'll sign it

I agree on this. I was ok with it up until now. I was a little ticked here and there with some things... but this is ridiculus! Crazy people... ARGH! Beyond words right now!
Man... I'm still going to go see it, I didn't turn my bedroom wall into a RotK countdown thing for nothing! (By the way I think it's 31 days as of this post)

I only sign the petition to incarcerate PJ and ban all his movies in all countries except Mongolia.

OK, first of all, great post Glorfinel. I agree on you with my entire heart.

Secondly... how will PJ get the pieces of what's left of Tolkien's story together? Without Saruman, how will Pippin get the Palantir? Will he just find it on the ground or what? How will Aragorn talk to Sauron through the palantir? How will he put up with the demands of an audience who wants to know what happened to Saruman? It's not like he was wiped out, I mean, he still has his tower in TTT. That's atleast something. And he continues on from that, he goes to the Shire where he has built up a new little Isengard, but by corrupting halflings instead. Even though I know there won't be a scouring of the Shire it still upsets me that he cuts Saruman out completely. He is still a major character.

And how will we know that Gandalf now is the leader of the Istari? Will he just proclaim it himself? That doesn't seem like the Gandalf I read about. Man... I had just worked up an interest for the movie and now I am just waiting to get disappointed. Still, I want to see PJ wrap this up nicely. He started this "adaption" of the books, let's atleast let him finish it before we jump to conclusions. Miracles still happens, right? ...right..?

well in TTT Extended version it does appear as if Aragorn is in love with Arwen and doesn't care for Eowyn that way at all. Although Eowyn seems completely head over heels in love with him, almost to desperation, even before she learn who he is. Ah well, we'll see. Hopefully he doesn't make a mess of the Eowyn-Faramir story.

Yet more dung for me to fire at Peter Jackson's name. Let us all hunt him down and string him up by the niblets!

*But I like whiniiiinnnnng!!!!*

Besides... "Awwwww! I was gonna go to Tachi Station and get some power converters!!!"

My true geekdom now fully exposed, I expect to be branded, flogged and run out of town... or at least off the farm...

Not for liking Star Wars (Episodes I and II excepted); however, if you overload the Grondy Gripe Gauge you might be.

This ain't like dusting crops boy.

Holy man that's a lot of people! Well, not that many once you think about all the people in the world... but still...
I'm sure the movie will still be great!

I'm biased, but I'd suggest you buy it. There's much more good than bad, in my opinion. :P

I think the only person who will really lose out then will be yourself, Glorfinel. New Line will sell so many DVDs (many to people who have never even picked up the book) that your protest and sacrifice will go totally unnoticed. Apparently PJ reads fan's comments from the web. The best way to get your protests noticed is to voice them over a wide selection of forum boards. That way you get to make yourself heard, and you get to see the good bits.

I'm sure any sites PJ checks out for what the fans of both his movies and Tolkien's books, as well as his diehard naysayers are saying about his films, will remain unannounced, so that the subsequent comments are not weighted one way or another, but are more spontaneous.

If he has come here, he has been welcomed just as have all new comers and has been subjected to both the barbs and the kudos that we have written here. There were a couple posts made by female members that I've felt might have been written by one of his writers. This was months ago, and on purpose I have forgotten who made them or which posts they were; I gave them a pass on this, not wishing to subject them to any unnecessary online adoration or harassment.

[Edited on 3/12/2003 by Grondmaster]