I have been convinced by Amarie and others to take my journal entries and post them. Though I am an old wizard, I am new to this, so be patient with me. Here is the first entry I made:

I am an English teacher and have read Tolkien's works to various audiences for over 30 years. I have studied the background to LOTR extensively and have written a paper on Tolkien's theological underpinning of his trilogy, the Silmarillion, etc. I have deliberately waited till I could view the extended DVD of RotK before saying anything about the last movie. The character portrayal by the actors is still good. I believe the actors were very well cast for their roles. The cinematography, effects, music, etc., are without equal, and I am sure all deserved their Oscars. But the alterations made in Tolkien's original story are very much objectionable in this movie, even more than these were in TTT.

My greatest objection is to the supposed meeting between Gandalf the White and the Witch-King of Angmar/Lord of the Nazgul. In the book, they meet just as the main gate is thrown down, and they are interrupted by the double events of Pippin informing Gandalf of the danger of Faramir and of the battle horns of the Rohirrim sounding. Instead of this, in the movie/DVD Gandalf meets Angmar on the battlements as the wizard is on his way to help Faramir. The Witch King raises his sword and causes Gandalf's white staff to burst asunder and then the wizard falls from Shadowfax. Not only should this make Tolkien fans bridle, but inexplicably Gandalf enters his last scene in the movie at the Grey Havens with his staff perfectly intact! So there is a two-sided logic problem here. Tolkien said that Gandalf was really a guardian angel. Think about it. He had defeated the Balrog--a demon of Morgoth--and had been sent back by Manwe to finish his task. He is a member of the Maiar, the equal of Sauron, though not hell-bent on domination as is Sauron. So how does he not have the power to withstand Angmar? In point of fact, Tolkien does not have these two power-clash because the outcome is a foregone conclusion--good must win. Rather, we must see to the end how Gandalf is able to inspire all the peoples of Middle Earth to oppose Sauron until the Ring is destroyed. But Jackson, who seems to need to be more blunt, makes them clash, with very illogical results. In the end, we are left to guess whether or not Gandalf used gorilla glue to fix his staff, since there it is, all in one piece, at the Havens!

I also did not like how Saruman was dealt with piecemeal, although it fit in with the Scouring of the Shire being completely missing. Jackson somehow wants to portray that the evils of war are confined to the battlefield, that they do not reach into the lives of those who fight and then make it back home. Tolkien knew better, having seen a real war himself. He deliberately wrote the Scouring to show how evil must be opposed in all its forms, not just the obvious ones.

Jackson may have had good intentions, as his work on the first movie indicates. But somewhere along the line he got sidetracked on his interpretations being on film rather than Tolkien's original story. In many respects, this movie trilogy is without equal, and it does do justice to the epic on some fronts. But especially in this last installment, Jackson falls utterly short of telling the story that was meant to be told by Tolkien. This is what Jackson said he wanted to do, but this is not what he did in the end.

That is the brainiest post I'd read in AGES. Fancy having an English teacher on PT!!! Welcome to pt, I say, and well met!!! This must be the most genuine welcome I've given in ages!!!

Dear Gandalf-Olorin,

I am glad you did this. Thank you! As for the staffs.. it makes you wonder where on earth Gandalf finds them. If a staff is a lengthening & power tool of a wizard, it cannot be so easily remade. Unless there is a staffs-are-us on Arda that we are not aware off.

I always thought that it was not a confrontation on Maiar/ring wraith level, but that it was a battle between the two rings made by Celebrimbor. So I always approached this from that level: Gandalf's ring Narya vs. the Witch king’s ring: they single each other out or neutralize the powers.

Gandalf got the ring from Cirdan, to aid him during his important task on ME; the ring of the Witch king made him a powerful Nazgul. I am not sure if the WK is able to break Gandalf's staff in the book, but I recall them being in deadlock, until they got interrupted.

I am curious what you think of it.

Thanks to all for their warm welcome! I must say it reminds me of parties in the Shire, it seems like a few ages ago....

Rhapsody in particular had a few comments that I need to speak to:



I do not believe this was a conflict of the two rings in question. Remember, the Three rings of the elven kings were made by Celebrimbor. They were not made for domination. But domination is what caused Sauron to make the One in Orodruin, and then "Celebrimbor was aware of him," and hid the Three from him. The Nine rings for mortal men became instruments of fear only by their connection to the One. Hence, the ring Narya is not meant to be an instrument of conquest, or in this case, of defense. Nor does Gandalf need such defense, as he cannot fear the servants of Sauron. Unlike the Noldor who had visited Valinor and had been perfected and made more powerful by that visit, Olorin came from Valinor and became Gandalf in his dealings with the kingdoms of the West of Middle Earth. Narya, like his staff, like Shadowfax, or like anything else, was an instrument, an aid, but not the source of his power. Consider also, the rings of themselves can do nothing. It is the ring as wielded by its bearer than can do good or ill. Since the Nazgul Lord's ring cannot affect Gandalf, and since Narya is not meant to force anyone into submission, I do not believe this was a contest of the rings.

No, indeed, in the book, Gandalf never lost his new staff to anyone. And remember, as Tolkien wrote it, Gandalf broke his staff on the Bridge of Khazad-dum, he did not suddenly drop it over the edge when the Balrog lassoed him. The symbolism is very typical and standard, i.e., the staff is the sign of his authority. No one but himself or his superior can do anything to his staff.

Also, if you remember the confrontation at the gate of Minas Tirith, just who Gandalf is seems to be hidden from Angmar. Yet Gandalf has no doubt of the authority he himself carries.



Now, no one aware that the wizard is a Maia would call him "old" as Angmar does here. Nor would a Maia fear death, personified or not, especially a Maia who had been through death already once. So no command of the Nazgal can discomfit Gandalf. Notice that "flames ran down the blade," as it shows in the DVD, but Gandalf's staff was not affected. And then, "horns, horns, horns..." Gandalf did NOT move. Angmar withdrew from the gate and vanished.

Thanks for your feedback.

(Grondy merely added the above quote notations to better set apart Rhapsody's previous post and Tolkien's text from that of Gandalf-Olorin.)

Amarie,

What you are suggesting is not far-fetched. What makes me hesitate to say "that's it" absolutely is that I cannot recall offhand the details Tolkien gave about Olorin in the Unfinished Tales. My copy of this tome has eluded me now for several months. But I do recall the Appendices saying Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf to inspire men in the fight against Sauron. So I would say secondarily, as an instrument to inflame others' courage, Narya could have helped Gandalf. But I could also say he derived this strength directly from his mission, from the authority given him by the Valar.

Does anyone have a copy of the Unfinished Tales? Maybe more details about Gandalf are there.