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Thread: Stage 1: Locations

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Taz - nice idea which will become a mammoth task. Problem is "commitment" from the "poster". I'd like to help...but...we'll lets give it a bash. Whatever. To tackle the place names it might be an idea to follow the journeys as above - but that would end up leaving a lot of stuff out (yep in the end it would!)

However, if, with Grondmaster's help and a few good bokks, we did things like ordonnace surveyors - take the maps and go through each area, in detail. Of course then you would have to cross reference the differnet geography according to the different ages etc.

For starter though a complete geography (scientific stuff) oif Hobbit and LOTR would be a good task
Well thats my feeling
Problem is - anyone know anything about topography or geography anymore?
Ok, who wants to make a complete list then of the locations?
Thats like mega a lot of work going trough all locations alphabetically.. I've a ME-atlas and well there are a lot of pages (trough the ages) okay there are some maps concerning the same places...

Another but I want to ad is most ppl don't know what Nargothrond or menegroth is or even gondolin, because they have only read LotR maybe even read The Hobbit or only have seen the movie.
I think that they will be recognising the places and want to read up.
and you can always ad more places after you have done the journeys.
And if you are just ram trough the maps and do it alphabetically you might be ending up a till g because it was so much work ppl were tired of it and wanted a break..?
Or if you are working the maps like in order of the ages you would maybe end with the 2nd age and a lot off ppl would know what it is al about and maybe wouldn't be so interested as recognising sites they allready have read about.

But it's all fine with me, I will help and wouldn't mind beginnen with the 1st age coz the places were so interesting (utumno).
That's a good idea Huan!

Why don't we just do it alphabetically throughout the maps?
You should tackle them in the order that they appear in the books, begin with the Void, head on through the first bits of Arda to Beleriand and end up at Mount Doom. I think.
Or you could do the Journey which frodo & co took? like first the shire, then bree, weathertop (amon sul Smile Smilie ) rivendell and so on
I am with Boring on that, Plastic and anyone else?
yeah, that was going to be my grand finale!
RotK has, at the back, an index of places...I think the Sil has another...that might be helpful in figuring out who does what places...

question, though: are we doing every single location, even the very obscure?
I think that settles it, let's start with the hobbit and index every location by order of each one they come across first, agreed?

Benefits: This way if we do it like this through all of J.R.R. Tolkien's books, people will be able to just lookup information as there reading them.
Assuming your all ok with that, by what rules are we going to index a location? e.g.

a) If a character enters a location in the book

b) if a character enters or even mentions a location in the book

Obviously with B this means any location mentioned by a character in a sentence must be indexed?
Think we're going to have to go with b. And if you need an idea of how it could be done, go look at the online encyclopedia of Arda (can't remember the URL search for it on Yahoo) Plus I have a couple of Encyclopedias that ought to help.
Well I don't think my misses is round tonight so when I get home I will start indexing The Hobbit, if anyone wants to talk to me I will be in the Chat room from 7pm GMT onwards...
I agree with everything said and I would love to be of any help.
I think we should go with B, yeah.
(Can I do the Old Forest, please please please, can I do the Old Forest??? Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie)
Smile Smilie Smile Smilie Smile Smilie Smile Smilie Smile Smilie Smile Smilie
Well I have to get the indexing of The Hobbit done first, then you can mark off you want to do the Old Forrest Smile Smilie I am almost finnished, should be done by tomorrow.
You all have a very taxing I mean hobby!
Best of luck all. I'm kinda overworked and busy and my misses is hogging Internet all night so don't count on me for the moment. Sorry
OK I think we should do the locations by region, from NorthEast to SouthWest on a standard MidEast map and slowly focus down to more specific locations EG start with the Shire, then Hobbiton, then Bag Hill, then Bag End, etc.
Why not. Not a bad idea at all. But I think Taz has nearly finished it now. He should... Big Smile Smilie I'm getting really excited on this! Can't wait! Smile Smilie
Sorry I am very pressed for time at the moment with our previous project, The Middle-Earth Adverturers Guild. A old project which will have it's first beta release by the end of next week on PT. For those of you who haven't heard of it before it's a Middle-Earth Role Playing Game but instead of webbased it's software. You will be able to download the game application from our website....

Rushed off my feet but I'm trying folks I'm trying!! Smile Smilie[Edited on 21/1/2002 by Taz]
Taz, am late onto this one, sorry. If you are too busy to finish indexing the names of locations in the Hobbit, just mail whatever you have to me & I'll do my bit.

How're you doing the initial compilation anyway - as a database type thing or just in simple spreadsheet? If it's either, then I can do it - then you can always transfer to whatever form you want to use later. Am going to be around (and unemployed) until April at least so my time is yours...except when I'm playing golf, that is. Wink Smilie

I'll send you my e-mail address if you're interested.
Since this post Ungoliant and myself have met up in the chat room and discussed the guide project. She is going to index The Hobbit for us and send me a proof copy ASAP of which I will add to the website for reviewing - Thanks Ungoliant!
Do you still need my index of names of the Hobbit?

Well, I've finished listing down location names- not many in the Hobbit, about 49 or so. Am double checking to make sure.

I'll also add a short description of each name before I mail it to you...and it'll probably be in alphabetical order. Once I've finished that, I'll start on LotR & Silm. Cheers.

The Guide Project has taken a massive twist, instead of indexing all the locations and then going through each one you can now click on "Guide" under the new "The Guide Project" section in the navigation bar. From here it is possible to add any term to the glossary in real time by clicking on "Add term". Please make sure that the term your adding does not already exist either by doing a search for it or checking through the index/letter links.

Obviously please make sure the term/definition your adding into the glossary is as correct and detailed as possible. The Guide Project is intended to be a benefit to tolkien fans and not a hindrance so if you see a mistake anywhere either inform me or post it to the community so it can be corrected ASAP!

Thank you and happy term adding!
Certainly ungoliant, if you send me the index when you have finnished it I will add it to PT and then we can all start writting the descriptions for each location and then add them to the new "Guide" section.
Taz/Grondie, can you start a new topic under 'Guide' for the Hobbit Locations? Then I can list the entries with descriptions so that we can all comment. Easier changing the info now than later I think.

I've use the following format for the entries:

Location Name ( References/Books ) Short description.


Gundabad, Mount Gundabad (The Hobbit). A mountain situated at the meeting point between the Misty (Hithaeglir) and Grey mountain ranges. The location of the capital of the Orcs of northern Middle-Earth.

Any comments would be helpful.
Consider it done...
OK should we post the subjects we are working on? SO we won't work out the same locations, Items, thingies etc?[Edited on 29/1/2002 by Boring]
I think so, otherwise we'll risk doing double or triple work. But I don't see a problem with that since it's always good to have a second or third opinion before we finally put it up. Smile Smilie

Check out the 'Hobbit Locations' as see if there's anything that you want to add. Are you working on locations or something else? If it's something else, then Taz/Grondie could always put up a new thread:

'Hobbit Characters' or 'LotR Locations' or 'Silm Characters' or whatever.

Btw, Taz I've a list of the Hobbit Characters. Can you start a new thread for that so I can put it up?
Yep Big Smile Smilie
I'm re-reading LOTR, and making a list of characters. Anyone else doing that? I hope not. Big Smile Smilie I just take down their names, and add a little explanation, if necessary, if I can find some. Smile Smilie
Wow! this is some task! What would be good ( if possible) is to present the location guide index as a series of maps (Silmarillion map, LOTR map etc) and have the places on the map linking to the relevant information
Just a thought Big Smile Smilie
Great thought!

What I had thought of, was to quote their first appearance in LOTR (with the characters I mean). Good idea? Bad idea? Big Smile Smilie
Good idea, Cirdan, an interactive map would certainly be an impressive addtion to the guide. do we have anyone with the IT skills to make it happen? Smoke Smilie
An interactive map would be fantastic but is beyond my capabilities. For the time being I'll continue adding bits and pieces to the guide whenever I get time. I've no system concerning which subjects I add and to be honest after quite a lot of work, I haven't even scratched the surface. Anyone wishing to help out with the Guide Project, feel free to do so. Just check first that the subject hasn't already been covered.
If I am understanding the rules on The Guide Project, anyone can enter things. You don't have to have been a member long? or part of the council? or anything? I have a lot of free time in the morings 2-3 hours, before Robbie wakes up. Then after he goes to bed at night. I had already started making my own guide a bit. I was mixing up names and places, and was getting confused on some things. Especially in the Sim. So I started writing things down. I can send what I have done or do more. There is not much yet, but you are welcome to what I have. Big Smile Smilie I'll help any way I can.
If you click on Guide Project on the left, Melliot, you'll find a section therein called Add Terms. Anyone can submit bits to go in this section, and as our guide so far consists of only just over a hundred entries, the more the merrier.
Please make sure the details submitted are as accurate and as comprehensive as possible, though. Thanks.

Oh, and welcome to the site, MelliotSandybanks. A very Hobbitish name, if I'm not mistaken?
I would be more than happy to design you the interactive Silmarillion map... Just let me know which one you would like me to use as a template.
Ok, I will get started on Monday. Thanks Valedhelgwath. It is nice to meet you. I hope you had a good time while you were away.

And yes it is a Hobbitish name. lol I found a website that generated Tolkien names if you typed in your real name and this is what is came up with. I wish I could remember which one it was.
Hey Val,

I have another question. My stuff is still a work in progress too. I am not sure how comprehensive it is. Do you want me to wait and add everything about one character at once or can I put what I have and just add more as I get the info? Now, I have even another question. ( I have lots actually but...) Most of my stuff is from the Silm, do I need to wait since everyone is concentrating on The Hobbit? Should we just do one book at a time? Or since Taz said
I have to postAuthorIDise all terms submitted,
should I go ahead and submitt what I have and he can postAuthorIDize it when he is ready for it to show up?


An Interactive Silmarillion map would be great.

[Edited on 26/8/2002 by MelliotSandybanks]

[Edited on 26/8/2002 by MelliotSandybanks]
Although several guidelines had been suggested when I first joined the site, there was very little activity on the Project so I just started adding bits that interested me. There were several lists drawn up by other members, and initially I left items on those lists alone incase others were covering them, but it seems now, if something interests you, and it hasn't already been posted there, submit it.
If you aren't sure you've got a comprehensive definition, if you'd like, I could go over the submissions myself and try to edit/add to them etc.
Great!!!! I would love that.
Any help that you could give would be wonderful. I just love to do stuff like this.
Send in your entries Melliot, and I'll go through them whenever I get a chance.
Val, I made and entry, but forgot to put (Silmarillion) and see ... for other references. and I can't go back and edit. I also thought of a couple of more things.

I hope my first entry was not too sloppy, I also forgot to go back and proof read before I his enter. Dunce Smilie I can be such a dunce sometimes.
Back in January, I was busy reading each and every teenie-bopper giggle about how 'Hot' Legolas is/was and didn't feel I could spend any time on the guide project; thus, I ignored this thread. Had I not done so, I could have pointed you to the Index of Place Names (eight pages of triple column listings) found at the end of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Revised Edition to The Atlas of MIDDLE-EARTH. It covers the maps and place names of The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and a few selections from HOME . From which you could have reversed engineered to the maps and text back to the books for more info. And at the least you would have had a very definitive list of names to start with.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to point this out to you then; nevertheless, I am confident you will end up with a fine compilation of place names with their descriptions on your own. Smile Smilie
Actually, Grondy, finding the places to write about isn't so much a problem as finding the time to write a piece about each one of them. When I started I figured we'd be better off going for quality (ie. a comprehensive description) rather than quantity. In the long run, I think this will be better, but it does have the downside of taking a lot of time. I've now got the book you mentioned and I'm sure as we begin running out of places, the lists will prove invaluable. Thanks

I made and entry, but forgot to put (Silmarillion) and see ... for other references. and I can't go back and edit. I also thought of a couple of more things.

I hope my first entry was not too sloppy, I also forgot to go back and proof read before I hit enter.
No problem, Melliot. I checked them before I came in here and you should now find them up there for everyone's benefit. If you have other bits that you've thought of since, probably the best bet will be to send me them in a private postBody and I'll edit them in...Thanks for the help.
ok, will do, Val. Thanks for letting me help
I would be more than happy to design you the interactive Silmarillion map... Just let me know which one you would like me to use as a template.
I don't think we will be able to get a map that incorporates MiddleEarth and Beleriand. Looking through the ones we have got, my favourite of MiddleEarth for this project would be map 6. It's not as colourful as some of the others, but the detail is good and its lack of bright colours means the important (interactive) bits will stand out better.
I like Number 15 for Beleriand, but you might need to wash out the color though. And its Val's call.

You might be able to superimpose the two maps using the mountains as the fixed points and draw the Second Age coastline in, using dashed lines. There really aren't many geographical items to name west of the S.A. mountains. You could also dash the eastern edge of the F.A. mountains over the Gulf of Lune. Making the ridge line of the mountain range be the boarder between the two ages. East of the F.A. mountains only needs be labeled Nogrod and Belegost, which could be also labeled (F.A.) after their names.

Anyway, the above is one way it could be done; however, you can probably get better resolution (magnification) by just having two separate maps and with an expenditure of a lot less energy. Smile Smilie
I am absolutely snowed under with little things to do around PT at the moment but I have STARTED work on the map so please give me a couple of days and continue to sort out whatever in the meantime.

Thanks Smile Smilie
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