Thread: Some Questions
When an elf dies he/she go's to the halls of mandos, but what form would the dead elves take, as presumably their spirit would leave their body; and is there some kind of barrier between the halls and outside to prevent living elves of Aman entering. What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world.
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When an elf dies he/she go's to the halls of mandos, but what form would the dead elves take, as presumably their spirit would leave their body;
When an elf dies he/she go's to the halls of mandos, but what form would the dead elves take, as presumably their spirit would leave their body;
I think they would take no form, and just be a spirit in the Halls of Mandos.
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and is there some kind of barrier between the halls and outside to prevent living elves of Aman entering.
and is there some kind of barrier between the halls and outside to prevent living elves of Aman entering.
Yes, there has to be some barrier. I think the person who built the Halls of Mandos knows what barrier. I'll ask N’mo next time i see him.
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What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world.
What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world.
Maybe they play scrabble, or twister. Or happy hippo.
Jenga?
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What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world
What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world
They sit in silent contemplation, thinking on the mistakes of their lives, until Mandos feels their spirits are again ready to leave the Halls and be reborn. For some this is only a short time (Finrod Felagund and Glorfindel) for others it will only occur at the End (Feanor). Some actually never wish to leave the Halls (Finwe's first wife, Miriel).
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They sit in silent contemplation, thinking on the mistakes of their lives, until Mandos feels their spirits are again ready to leave the Halls and be reborn. For some this is only a short time (Finrod Felagund and Glorfindel) for others it will only occur at the End (Feanor). Some actually never wish to leave the Halls (Finwe's first wife, Miriel).
They sit in silent contemplation, thinking on the mistakes of their lives, until Mandos feels their spirits are again ready to leave the Halls and be reborn. For some this is only a short time (Finrod Felagund and Glorfindel) for others it will only occur at the End (Feanor). Some actually never wish to leave the Halls (Finwe's first wife, Miriel).
I know about Glorfindel, what about the others? Where is it mentioned that Finrod or Feanor were "reborn"? Speaking of Feanor and the End, is it the bettle where Morgoth gets killed by Turin? In that case, if Turin was a human, how come he was there?
P.S. Can someone provide the referances as to when Finrod was "reborn" and possibly Feanor too?
ya i'm very intrested in hearing about Finrod's ressurection. I have read that T’rin slays Morgoth in the end, makybe Eru sends him down to earth for the final battle... Who else has truly received that much cruelty by the will of Morgoth? <---rhetorical question 
I do remember reading somewhere it meantions T’rin and Niniel, in Valinor, wash themselves in some sort of magical fountain/bath, and they are cleansed of all their pains on middle earth.
I do remember reading somewhere it meantions T’rin and Niniel, in Valinor, wash themselves in some sort of magical fountain/bath, and they are cleansed of all their pains on middle earth.
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Where is it mentioned that Finrod or Feanor were "reborn"?
Where is it mentioned that Finrod or Feanor were "reborn"?
In the case of Finrod, it says just after his death in the Silmarillion, Of Beren and Luthien...
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They buried the body of Felagund upon the hilltop of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained unviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under the destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.
They buried the body of Felagund upon the hilltop of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained unviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under the destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.
Of Feanor it is said...
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Then he died; but he had neither burial or tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke;and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos.
Then he died; but he had neither burial or tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke;and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos.
One of Tolkien's earlier writings did mention the Final Battle prior to the End. In this battle the Halls of Mandos open and all within (including Men) pour onto the battlefield to face Morgoth and his minions. In this battle Turin gets to slay Morgoth, and after the battle, Feanor returns the Silmarils to the Valar.
I don't think it's a matter of boredom for the Elves; after all, they have to comprehend where they went wrong and try fixing those wrongs. When they do that, they're released. So, in the case of Feanor, it's quite understandable that he's kept there 'till the Final Battle! *sighs*
As for Turin, I think he has an extraordinary doom and he's the most suited person to avenge all the evil Morgoth brought to Men.
As for Turin, I think he has an extraordinary doom and he's the most suited person to avenge all the evil Morgoth brought to Men.
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Speaking of Feanor and the End, is it the bettle where Morgoth gets killed by Turin? In that case, if Turin was a human, how come he was there?
Speaking of Feanor and the End, is it the bettle where Morgoth gets killed by Turin? In that case, if Turin was a human, how come he was there?
Sorry, I never got back to answering this one.... How come Turin was where? The Halls of Mandos?
Sometimes there is a misconception that only Elves go to the Halls of Mandos. In fact both Elves, Men and possibly Dwarves go to the Houses of the Dead, but they are kept in separate Halls. It is after their Time of Awaiting that is different.
When Elves are deemed to be ready, they have the chance to return in body to Aman. Men's fate is not tied to Arda, so after their Time of Awaiting, their spirits pass West out of Arda. It is said that after the End, they get to live with Iluvatar, and take part in the Second Great Music. I am not sure what happens between their time of leaving the Halls and the End; whether they travel to Iluvatar's abode immediately, wait in some sort of cosmic Limbo, or whether their Time of Awaiting literally only ends at the End. It is said, however, that at the time of the final battle, the Halls of Mandos are opened and armies of Men and Elves get to fight the hordes of evil. Whether this is all Men who ever existed, or just those who could not leave Mandos without one final fight (Turin etc), I'm not certain.
If Dwarves do get to spend time in the Halls of Mandos, they do not get to leave until the End. Their task is to help Aule rebuild the broken world after the final battle.
I hope that goes some way towards answering your question, Floyd.
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When Elves are deemed to be ready, they have the chance to return in body to Aman. Men's fate is not tied to Arda, so after their Time of Awaiting, their spirits pass West out of Arda.
When Elves are deemed to be ready, they have the chance to return in body to Aman. Men's fate is not tied to Arda, so after their Time of Awaiting, their spirits pass West out of Arda.
Val. Where did you read this exactly? I always understood that after the men passed the halls of Mandos they go beyond Arda, never to return. That is the gift of Illuvatar to men.. right?
It's in the Silmarillion.... There's a bit in the Chapter, Of Men, which tells how they go to the Halls of Mandos on death, and after their Time of Awaiting, only Iluvatar, Mandos and Manwe know their fate. None, except Beren, ever returned though (except in tales concerning the final battle, which is mentioned very briefly in Morgoth's Ring).
There's a bit more in the chapter about Beren and Luthien, in which it says...
The Gift of Man was a special fate given to them on their creation by Iluvatar. Basically, it placed their fates outside of the preordained pattern of the Ainulindale, making them less tied to the fate of Ea than the Elves. On their death they would go to the halls of Mandos for their time of Awaiting, but after that pass beyond the Circles of the World to an unknown destiny. Basically, with respect to Ea, they age and die, but their death is a means to a greater freedom. The Valar did not know, but Tolkien wrote, after the End, Men would abode with Iluvatar and join with the singing of the Second Great Music.
There's a bit more in the chapter about Beren and Luthien, in which it says...
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But Mandos had no power to withhold the spirits of Men that were dead within the confines of the world, after their time of waiting; nor could he change the fates of the Children of Iluvatar.
But Mandos had no power to withhold the spirits of Men that were dead within the confines of the world, after their time of waiting; nor could he change the fates of the Children of Iluvatar.
The Gift of Man was a special fate given to them on their creation by Iluvatar. Basically, it placed their fates outside of the preordained pattern of the Ainulindale, making them less tied to the fate of Ea than the Elves. On their death they would go to the halls of Mandos for their time of Awaiting, but after that pass beyond the Circles of the World to an unknown destiny. Basically, with respect to Ea, they age and die, but their death is a means to a greater freedom. The Valar did not know, but Tolkien wrote, after the End, Men would abode with Iluvatar and join with the singing of the Second Great Music.
Owww thanks Val!!! This is great information. I read about the gift of Illuvatar a while ago in the Silm, so it was a bit dormant. But I like that idea a lot. *tries to fence off a plotbunny*
