Amari’ posted Friday 31st December 2004
Quote:
*Gasp!* Does this mean you have been calling Amaree all this time? I am shocked! Young lady, I banish you to the LOTR appendix untill you have learned to pronounce the e-s at the ending of elven words.
Shouldn't take long, you should be done in good time before the fireworks.
Quote:
Namarie,
Rhapsody
(hey that rimes!)
Namarie,
Rhapsody
(hey that rimes!)
*Gasp!* Does this mean you have been calling Amaree all this time? I am shocked! Young lady, I banish you to the LOTR appendix untill you have learned to pronounce the e-s at the ending of elven words.
Shouldn't take long, you should be done in good time before the fireworks. (...)
Rhapsody posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
Nam’ri’
Nah-MAR-ee-ay
Rhap-so-dy, if you are a Southerner or an Aussie/Kiwi I can imagine it becomes Rhap-so-day.
So your case being?
Nam’ri’
Nah-MAR-ee-ay
Rhap-so-dy, if you are a Southerner or an Aussie/Kiwi I can imagine it becomes Rhap-so-day.
So your case being?
Amari’ posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
My case is that you are wrong. ’ or e is not pronouced ay. It is like a regular e like for example a German would say it, or a Norwegian like me. Appendix E explains how to say e. I am sure the Dutch version does too.
Rhapso-day is fun to say though.
My case is that you are wrong. ’ or e is not pronouced ay. It is like a regular e like for example a German would say it, or a Norwegian like me. Appendix E explains how to say e. I am sure the Dutch version does too.
Rhapso-day is fun to say though.
Virumor posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Nam’ri’
Nah-MAR-ee-ay
Well Cate Blanchett in FOTR didn't pronounce it the "ay" way but use the "e" of the German Theobald, as explained in the Appendices. Not sure if the movies are the best source for learning Elvish, but anyway, let's trust someone with pointy ears.
And to stay on topic : welcome to the greenhorns.
Quote:
Nam’ri’
Nah-MAR-ee-ay
Well Cate Blanchett in FOTR didn't pronounce it the "ay" way but use the "e" of the German Theobald, as explained in the Appendices. Not sure if the movies are the best source for learning Elvish, but anyway, let's trust someone with pointy ears.
And to stay on topic : welcome to the greenhorns.
Rhapsody posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
APPENDIX E WRITING AND SPELLING
I PRONUNCIATION OF WORDS AND NAMES
VOWELS
For vowels the letters i, e, a, o, u are used, and (in Sindarin only) y. As far as can be determined the sounds represented by these letters (other than y) were of normal kind, though doubtless many local varieties escape detection.
STRESS
The position of the 'accent' or stress is not marked, since in the Eldarin languages concerned its place is determined by the form of the word. In words of two syllables it falls in practically all cases on the first syllable. In longer words it falls on the last syllable but one, where that contains a long vowel, a diphthong, or a vowel followed by two (or more) consonants. Where the last syllable but one contains (as often) a short vowel followed by only one (or no) consonant, the stress falls on the syllable before it, the third from the end. Words of the last form are favoured in the Eldarin languages, especially Quenya.
In the following examples the stressed vowel is marked by a capital letter: isIldur, Orome, erEss’a, f’anor, ancAlima, elent’ri; dEnethor, periAnnath, ecthElion, pelArgir, silIvren. Words of the type elent’ri 'star-queen' seldom occur in Quenya where the vowel is ’, ’, ’, unless (as in this case) they are compounds; they are commoner with the vowels ’, ’, as and ’ne 'sunset, west'. They do not occur in Sindarin except in compounds. Note that Sindarin dh, th, ch are single consonants and represent single letters in the original scripts.
It says nowhere how Namarie is pronounced in that appendix. But I did found the following:
nam’ri’. In Dutch it would be said as ie... the Dutch variant of Rhapsody ends on an ie...
No I don't have a Dutch edition of LOTR nearby.
APPENDIX E WRITING AND SPELLING
I PRONUNCIATION OF WORDS AND NAMES
VOWELS
For vowels the letters i, e, a, o, u are used, and (in Sindarin only) y. As far as can be determined the sounds represented by these letters (other than y) were of normal kind, though doubtless many local varieties escape detection.
STRESS
The position of the 'accent' or stress is not marked, since in the Eldarin languages concerned its place is determined by the form of the word. In words of two syllables it falls in practically all cases on the first syllable. In longer words it falls on the last syllable but one, where that contains a long vowel, a diphthong, or a vowel followed by two (or more) consonants. Where the last syllable but one contains (as often) a short vowel followed by only one (or no) consonant, the stress falls on the syllable before it, the third from the end. Words of the last form are favoured in the Eldarin languages, especially Quenya.
In the following examples the stressed vowel is marked by a capital letter: isIldur, Orome, erEss’a, f’anor, ancAlima, elent’ri; dEnethor, periAnnath, ecthElion, pelArgir, silIvren. Words of the type elent’ri 'star-queen' seldom occur in Quenya where the vowel is ’, ’, ’, unless (as in this case) they are compounds; they are commoner with the vowels ’, ’, as and ’ne 'sunset, west'. They do not occur in Sindarin except in compounds. Note that Sindarin dh, th, ch are single consonants and represent single letters in the original scripts.
It says nowhere how Namarie is pronounced in that appendix. But I did found the following:
nam’ri’. In Dutch it would be said as ie... the Dutch variant of Rhapsody ends on an ie...
No I don't have a Dutch edition of LOTR nearby.
Virumor posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
I thought Quenya should be pronounced as Latin or something. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in the appendices that "e" should be pronounced as in "Theobald" but i can't check it right now, sorry.
I also think that it is mentioned somewhere in the appendices that each letter should be pronounced separately, so the Dutch 'ie' would not be possible. For instance : Galadriel.
I'm no expert on Elvish languages, anyway. Peredhil should be able to enlighten us on this subject, but he has long gone unfortunately.
I thought Quenya should be pronounced as Latin or something. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in the appendices that "e" should be pronounced as in "Theobald" but i can't check it right now, sorry.
I also think that it is mentioned somewhere in the appendices that each letter should be pronounced separately, so the Dutch 'ie' would not be possible. For instance : Galadriel.
I'm no expert on Elvish languages, anyway. Peredhil should be able to enlighten us on this subject, but he has long gone unfortunately.
Rhapsody posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
Nopes, me either, but being directed to the appendices and reading something like that confuses the hell out of me.. I am not a linguistic although playing with words aka writing is something I love.
Nopes, me either, but being directed to the appendices and reading something like that confuses the hell out of me.. I am not a linguistic although playing with words aka writing is something I love.
Amari’ posted Saturday 1st January 2005
Quote:
Hmmm, I thought there would be word examples in the English version. In the Norwegian version the section about vowels says after ....though doubtless many local varieties escape detection.:
"That means that the sounds were approximatly the same as we would find in Norwegian fin, ser, ja, nok, bukk, no matter the vowel length." Then later it says that e in the end of words is never silent.
And since Vir mentioned Pere (miss him!!!!), he used Fauskangers Quenya course as base for his classes. To quote lesson a from that course:
Edited (or Virumored
) by myself to include links to the Ardalambion and the Quenya course.
Hmmm, I thought there would be word examples in the English version. In the Norwegian version the section about vowels says after ....though doubtless many local varieties escape detection.:
"That means that the sounds were approximatly the same as we would find in Norwegian fin, ser, ja, nok, bukk, no matter the vowel length." Then later it says that e in the end of words is never silent.
And since Vir mentioned Pere (miss him!!!!), he used Fauskangers Quenya course as base for his classes. To quote lesson a from that course:
Quote:
Short e may be pronounced as in English end. In Quenya this sound also occurs in final position. Since word-final e is usually silent in English orthography, Tolkien often used the spelling ’ in this position ’ and throughout this course, this spelling is employed consistently. This is only to remind English readers that in Quenya, this letter is to be distinctly pronounced. But since word-final e never occurs in spoken English, some speakers tend to substitute i or ey (following English practice in the rare cases of a final orthographic "e" being sounded, as when Jesse is pronounced "jessi", or karate is pronounced "karatey"). Quenya e should have the value described above in all positions. It must NOT be pronounced i, nor must there be a y-like sound creeping after it: l’m’ "night", mor’ "black", tinw’ "sparkle".
Short e may be pronounced as in English end. In Quenya this sound also occurs in final position. Since word-final e is usually silent in English orthography, Tolkien often used the spelling ’ in this position ’ and throughout this course, this spelling is employed consistently. This is only to remind English readers that in Quenya, this letter is to be distinctly pronounced. But since word-final e never occurs in spoken English, some speakers tend to substitute i or ey (following English practice in the rare cases of a final orthographic "e" being sounded, as when Jesse is pronounced "jessi", or karate is pronounced "karatey"). Quenya e should have the value described above in all positions. It must NOT be pronounced i, nor must there be a y-like sound creeping after it: l’m’ "night", mor’ "black", tinw’ "sparkle".
Edited (or Virumored
) by myself to include links to the Ardalambion and the Quenya course. Rhapsody posted Saturday 2nd January 2005
Quote:
I found it! The Dutch editition. It says: Al deze tweeklanken (including ie) waren 'verminderde' tweeklanken, d.w.z. met de klemtoon op het eerste element en samengesteld uit de versmolten eenvoudige klinkers. Zo is het de bedoeling dat ai,ei, oi. ui. respectievelijk worden uitgesproken als de klinkers in het Nederlands.
It basically says that Namarie should be prononounced, in our tongue as 'ie', the same would happen with when you say Rhapsody in Dutch.
*closes big book*
I found it! The Dutch editition. It says: Al deze tweeklanken (including ie) waren 'verminderde' tweeklanken, d.w.z. met de klemtoon op het eerste element en samengesteld uit de versmolten eenvoudige klinkers. Zo is het de bedoeling dat ai,ei, oi. ui. respectievelijk worden uitgesproken als de klinkers in het Nederlands.
It basically says that Namarie should be prononounced, in our tongue as 'ie', the same would happen with when you say Rhapsody in Dutch.
*closes big book*
) in cardboard, not that different from newsprint. But newsprint, as everyone knows, is for wrapping BABIES, silly.
