Thread: Faramir?
i just read that if tolkien were to relate to anyone it would be in Faramir. i found this in Letters. does he relate more with another charachter, such as Beren more?
Faramir? That's interesting... but Faramir has always been a sort of quiet person who sees truth. He thinks so much more about the whole world and the future of all peoples rather than mere things about his own people and his own honor and stuff. He stands from a higher point and views so much more than others. Maybe Tolkien saw himself as that sort of figure, as he is the grand storyteller.
Yeah, I can totally see that, but I see your point, too, Elrose (after all The Lay of Leithian was a deliberately stylized version of his own courtship of Edith.) I don't think Tolkien saw himself as storming the gates of hell to recover future stars though. Remember, the chief grudge Denethor (II) held against Faramir was that where his elder brother was a man of action after his fathers heart, Faramir (II) was in many ways "Gandalfs son," scholarly where Boromir (II, technically III) was martial, careful where Boromir was bold, sympathetic where Boromir was resolute, visionary where Boromir was immediate, and aware of risk and temptation where Boromir was aware of opportunity and triumph. Not that either was incapable of the attributes I ascribe to the other, but each brother displayed the primary traits of the other latently, subsequent and as a consequence of his own. Which of these traits reminds us of Tolkien?
We must also bear in mind that both the time of creation and level of development is vastly different in the two works. The Silmarillion is an unfinished epic opus, and one begun in Tolkiens college years, when it is natural to envision oneself as something of the conquering hero, victorious against all odds over all adversity. The Trilogy is something entirely different. If its scale is less than that of the Trilogy, it is far more detailed in its execution, and, most importantly to this discussion, complete. It is also the work of a mature author, begun as he approached his fiftieth year and published in his sixties. It's only natural then that the character with whom the "elder Tolkien" identified is more reflective, more contemplative, than his counterpart for the "younger Tolkien," more vital and adventurous, as youth itself.
So, ultimately, I answer the question "Is Tolkien like Faramir or like Boromir?" the way I like to answer all such: Yes.
We must also bear in mind that both the time of creation and level of development is vastly different in the two works. The Silmarillion is an unfinished epic opus, and one begun in Tolkiens college years, when it is natural to envision oneself as something of the conquering hero, victorious against all odds over all adversity. The Trilogy is something entirely different. If its scale is less than that of the Trilogy, it is far more detailed in its execution, and, most importantly to this discussion, complete. It is also the work of a mature author, begun as he approached his fiftieth year and published in his sixties. It's only natural then that the character with whom the "elder Tolkien" identified is more reflective, more contemplative, than his counterpart for the "younger Tolkien," more vital and adventurous, as youth itself.
So, ultimately, I answer the question "Is Tolkien like Faramir or like Boromir?" the way I like to answer all such: Yes.
In another letter JRRT writes he's most alike to a Hobbit : enjoying his pipe, getting up late, etc.
Maybe some pundit should look it up, as i can't be bothered with it.
Maybe some pundit should look it up, as i can't be bothered with it.
It is found in his Letter #213, which was to Deborah Webster, in which he wrote among other things:
Quote:
I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats, I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late (when possible). I do not travel much.
I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats, I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late (when possible). I do not travel much.
sure he's a hobbit but what hobbit is he? Faramir seems most like Frodod or Bilbo and Bilbo is a writer, so is Frodo though...
Tolkien had Beren written on his grave and luthien on his wifes so that would kinda suggest who he saw himself as.
There is a footnote to one of his letters (one in which he mentions the Great Wave dream).
Quote:
... As far as any character is 'like me' it is Faramir - except that i lack what all my characters possess (let the psychoanalysts note!) Courage.
... As far as any character is 'like me' it is Faramir - except that i lack what all my characters possess (let the psychoanalysts note!) Courage.
We seldom if ever dream (whether asleep or awake) of being a person with less admirable qualities than we possess. So those with less courage would see themselves as being more courageous. And while Faramir would be a good Third Age choice, Beren of the First Age would be even better as he is even more full of it, what ever it is. 
Quote:
There is a footnote to one of his letters (one in which he mentions the Great Wave dream).
There is a footnote to one of his letters (one in which he mentions the Great Wave dream).
Great Wave dream ? Apparently a mischievous student put some mescaline in the Professor's noon tea.
In Letter #163 to W.H. Auden, Tolkien wrote on 7 June 1955, that he and one of his sons had unbeknownced to the other Atlantis type dreams:
Quote:
I mean the terrible recurrent dream (beginning with memory) of a Great Wave, towering up, and coming in ineluctably over trees and green fields. (I bequeathed it to Faramir.) I don't think I have had it since I wrote the 'Downfall of N’menor' as the last of the legends of the First and Second Age.
’ from The Letters of JRR Tolkien edited by Humphrey Carpenter
He thought the dream might have been an inherited trait but he hadn't been old enough to question his parents about it. Still, it is possible that one of his parents or their forebearers suffered through a tsunami, and that it doesn't have to go all the way back to Atlantis.I mean the terrible recurrent dream (beginning with memory) of a Great Wave, towering up, and coming in ineluctably over trees and green fields. (I bequeathed it to Faramir.) I don't think I have had it since I wrote the 'Downfall of N’menor' as the last of the legends of the First and Second Age.
’ from The Letters of JRR Tolkien edited by Humphrey Carpenter
I hate how they depict Faramir in the movies. They should never have had him take Frodo to Osgiliath. Faramir was depicted as daddy's little reject in the movies when he was really a hero of >
Gondor that many soldiers looked up to just as much, if not more than Faramir.
Gondor that many soldiers looked up to just as much, if not more than Faramir.
More than Boromir, I think you meant.
I think you are right though. Faramir had that certain something - an air of Westernesse, I think it was said. Boromir was a great soldier but Faramir was also a diplomat. The people loved him not just because he was a hero but because he inspired that love by who he was.
I think you are right though. Faramir had that certain something - an air of Westernesse, I think it was said. Boromir was a great soldier but Faramir was also a diplomat. The people loved him not just because he was a hero but because he inspired that love by who he was.
on that....Faramirs horse tokk him every where he asked....nazgul or no, except for the witch king maybe....im probably wrong about the WK
Movie Faramir was indeed far(amir) from the character in the books.
Still, it was very satisfying to see his men kick and beat that annoying slobbery lil git Gollum all over the place, in true Abu Ghraib fashion. That bunch of pixels really deserved it.
Still, it was very satisfying to see his men kick and beat that annoying slobbery lil git Gollum all over the place, in true Abu Ghraib fashion. That bunch of pixels really deserved it.
And if that bunch of pixels hadn't deserve it by then, he certainly would with his forthcoming evil machinations of innuendo and dumped lembas bread, which would result in the unbook-like separation of Sam from Frodo. Of course I consider that gratuitous movie beating was out of character for both Faramir and the men under his command.
So do I. I never really liked the idea of Faramir violence. I know that he does get violent sometimes when it's necessary in the books, but the way he threatened Gollum right after that sort of softening moment was a bit of the OOC.
Whatever image we hold of Faramir, there is no denying he was a frontline scout/soldier/ranger/whatever. He patrolled the dangerous borders of an enemy country. However "good" he was in nature, to survive in such a place, and do his job well, he would have to be a "hard" man. He could not be kind to orcs etc.... only attacking them if they were attacked first etc. He would have been like any other Special Forces soldier, basically a trained assassin. Tactics like beating the information out of Gollum would not be out of place.... it would be "in the line of duty".
Quote:
He would have been like any other Special Forces soldier, basically a trained assassin. Tactics like beating the information out of Gollum would not be out of place.... it would be "in the line of duty
He would have been like any other Special Forces soldier, basically a trained assassin. Tactics like beating the information out of Gollum would not be out of place.... it would be "in the line of duty
Ah, but he wasn't like any other Green Beret or whatever. He didn't immediately order to have Gollum killed, but gave Frodo the chance to spare the little pest.
Quote:
And if that bunch of pixels hadn't deserve it by then, he certainly would with his forthcoming evil machinations of innuendo and dumped lembas bread, which would result in the unbook-like separation of Sam from Frodo.
And if that bunch of pixels hadn't deserve it by then, he certainly would with his forthcoming evil machinations of innuendo and dumped lembas bread, which would result in the unbook-like separation of Sam from Frodo.
Nah, Gollum's forgiven for that. It was hilarious to see PJ's version of Laurel & Hardy separated.
