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Thread: POTW - early September

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Elanor Posted Thursday 2nd September 2004 (12:44am) and again on Thursday 2nd September 2004 (12:53am) I have lumped these together because they are almost one post. Sorry - Elanor, you only get one POTW award for them! But a well deserved award - very interesting and well put. If anyone wants to carry the discussion on it is in the Middle-earth Forum under History of - Galadriel and the Istari.

Really what I have to add to your debate is an aside

- I would have thought that Gandalf as Olorin was beyond the comprehension of Galadriel, in the West that was, but not in his "human" form, in the third age... (there were five Istari, and only Galadriel thought that Gandalf, not Sauraman was the first of them....) Radaghast the brown is hardly mentioned, except that he had the word and ear of animals, expecially birds, and the eagles are very important (they save the day, twice.... in the Hobbit and in TLOTR) - and Eagles bring Gandalf to Galadriel after his battle with the Balrog, just as the same Gwahir brings Frodo and Sam back from the brink of Doom.....

Olorin is mentioned in connection with Nienna, but if memory does not fail and poor Elvish does not let me down, it is Nienna who is connected both with the houses of healing and of the dead (in the sense in which elves "die") - the root of her name is tears.... she is a disciple of Aule, of growth, earth, sleep, .... a very "Earthy" goddess, saint, healing and or death? and very much in keeping with Gandalf who shares the sorrows and life and life spans of the small things of middle earth, as opposed to the great.... his contact with Galadriel is more inducive of a softening in Galadriel,(jnercessary, perhaps given family history) rather than a raising of Gandalf.

Death as the gift which Illuvatar gave to men, which elves and others do not understand?

Finally, Gandalf does in some way die when in battle with the Balrog, but is sent back, not by boat, (even a magic one) or by conventional means, but spiritually..... and as something different, more, both more "human" and more "magic".... as a sign of the beginning of the end.... Frodo comments on his visit to Lothlorien as if it was not only something out of time, but something also now lost from time.... as if he was among the last of the visitors, and I do also think that we should look at the last song of Galadriel, even if it was high elvish.....

The victory of the LOTR implies a victory for mankind, but a world also lost.... Saruman diminished to a petty tyrant, elves to the level of wild mirkwood wood elves, etc., I think that the passing of the third age is big deal...... and that we should see Galadriel as part of the first and second age, diminished in the third, where Gandalf, who also belongs to the the first and second, triumphs because of his understanding of the Third Age and his vision for the Fourth.... (which we only find out about in Appendixes...)

I don't know, this became a long post but would love to hear your opinions.....

(the first post ends here.....)

Oi, sorry want to do a really rotten thing.. but.

So many of you assume that Cirdan, Galadriel, Elrond etc., knew what they were doing in exile..... and would have recognised a messenger of Aule, the Vala, a Maia, etc, That the White Council was up to scratch....

If so, why didn't they know the Necromancer for what he was, why didn't they recognise and proctect all of the Istari, how did the Numernoreans diminish to the line of Aragon, the Dunedain with only vague protection from a weak Rivendell.....

Gandlafs account of being sent back from death, Bombadils' decision to remain in ignorance of that outside his borders, Galadriels retreat to Lothlorien with a Grey Elf as consort..... the dwarfs loss of Moira, Elves of Hollin, and Gondor's serious retreats..... surely it points not only to disminishment, but also loss of history, loss of heritage, loss..... that those who lived in middle earth had only partial or grey memories of time gone by (to a lesser or greater extent depending on their power, but always, a diminishing of the West?)

100 pieces of Mithril will be yours when we are able to send it!
Congratulations, Elanor. Those posts were very thought provoking. I must reply to them in more detail when I get enough spare time.
What a great post Elanor! Congratulations! Thumbs Up Smilie
Good thinking Elanor, very clear and concise. Happy Elf Smilie
Very well done, Elanor. Bravo!

Encore! Encore!
Congratulations Elanor, nice post! Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie