[quote="Eldorion":31oy6jhp][quote="Gandalfs Beard":31oy6jhp]Except "white" people in "Black-face" have traditionally been cast as Othello until the last few decades.
Which was an unfortunate historical byproduct that is now being fixed. Seeing as neither petty nor I advocate for white actors to play Othello, I fail to see how that is a meaningful response to our points.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
it is a meaningful response to that particular point of Petty's.
[quote:31oy6jhp][quote:31oy6jhp]Given that many Hobbits were incredibly well tanned (with tans that George Hamilton and John Boehner would kill for), and the plausibility of Hobbits from other parts of Middle Earth, and Especially the fact they are Fantasy creatures; I see little reason not to cast a few "darker" skinned Hobbits.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
Except [url=http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/4400118/Hobbit-hopeful-pulled-up-short-over-skin-colour:31oy6jhp]the woman in question[/url:31oy6jhp] is considerably darker-skinned than a European person with a tan.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
Funnily enough she doesn't even look as tanned as George Hamilton or John Boehner:
[quote:31oy6jhp][quote:31oy6jhp]Personally, as a general rule, I'm all for casting the main characters of an adaptation with the "racial" characteristics as written. But I see little reason to have an all-white cast of extras in any production nowadays.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
I don't see any problem with getting extras whose physical appearance matches that of the people they are supposed to be portraying. I would be annoyed by watching a movie like, say, John Wayne's Genghis Khan movie with white actors trying to play people who were Asian, but I think it works both ways.
I don't think it's annoying for extras to be mixed. Your point is more valid for the main characters. Besides, it's not meant to represent real history like John Wayne's Genghis Khan...Right?....
[quote:31oy6jhp][quote:31oy6jhp]It's more than just being PC, it's actually historically accurate.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
We're not talking about real world history, we're talking about Middle-earth. I could see the case being made for Gondor, but [i:31oy6jhp]The Hobbit[/i:31oy6jhp] takes place exclusively in the (relatively isolated) northern part of the region.[/quote:31oy6jhp]
...Oh...so NOW it's Fantasy.
And maybe you are insisting that Ancient Britain (the Shire) never had Arabic or North African visitors (some of whom stuck around):
The Black Romans ’ Articles on Black History
Was Septimius Severus the 1st Black man to rule England?
Did you know that Black and Asian people first came to the North East in Roman times? Or that England was once ruled by a Libyan? These and many more historical facts were revealed as part of BBC Black History Month.
Early Black History
Emperor Septimius Severus wasn’t the only Black Roman in Britain. There were other African officers, soldiers ’ stationed on and around Hadrian’s Wall in the 3rd century.
From the 9th century onwards, there are records of Vikings bringing Moroccans to the region.
There’s a gap in the recording of black presence in the North East of England for nearly 400 years until the start of the 16th century.
Black and Asian presence in the North East of England can be traced back to Septimius Severus, a North African Libyan, who ruled England as Roman Emperor between 193-211 AD.
Severus was unique amongst the Roman emperors as being the first Black citizen to hold the highest office in the empire.
Son of Septimus
The most celebrated example of an early Black presence in Britain is the case of the Roman military garrison on Hadrian’s Wall in Cumbria.
A 4th century inscription tells us that the Roman auxiliary unit, Numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum, was stationed at Aballava, modern day Burgh-by-Sands.
This unit had been mustered in the Roman province of Mauretania in North Africa, modern Morocco.
The Black Romans
It was recently suggested that African DNA might be found to be present in the local populations near to Hadrian’s Wall.
However, this would not conclusively show that the Black Roman soldiers on the wall intermarried with the local population because of the problem of ’admixture’.
Admixture is a process whereby the DNA of a population becomes diluted over time and it cannot be shown at what period in time that dilution took place.
During his time in office, Septimius Severus legalised marriage during military service.
There is also evidence that that some Black Romans married, had children, and remained in Britain after their tour of duty.
Skeletons unearthed in a Romano British Cemetery outside York revealed the limb proportions of some of the men suggested that they were Black Africans.
Perhaps they might be considered to be Britain’s first Diaspora people, making Cumbria the birthplace of Black British history?[/quote:31oy6jhp]
[quote:31oy6jhp]Borders Folks May Be Descended From Africans (Hadrian's Wall)
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 6-11-2004 | David Derbyshire
Families who have lived in the English-Scottish Borders for generations could be descended from African soldiers who patrolled Hadrian's Wall nearly 2,000 years ago.
Archaeologists say there is compelling evidence that a 500-strong unit of Moors manned a fort near Carlisle in the third century AD.
Richard Benjamin, an archaeologist at Liverpool University who has studied the history of black Britons, believes many would have settled and raised families.
"When you talk about Romans in Britain, most people think about blue eyes and pale complexions," he said. "But the reality was very different."
Writing in the journal British Archaeology, Mr Benjamin describes a fourth century inscription discovered in Beaumount, two miles from the remains of the Aballava fort at Burgh by Sands. The inscription refers to the "numerus of Aurelian Moors" - a unit of North Africans, probably named after the emperor Marcus Aurelius.
The unit is also mentioned in the Notitia Dignitatum, a Roman list of officials and dignitaries. It describes the prefect of the "numeri Maurorum Aurelianorum, Aballaba".
The unit was probably mustered in the Roman province of Mauretania, in modern-day Morocco, by the emperor Septimus Severus and arrived in Britain in the second or third centuries AD. Aballava lay at the western end of Hadrian's Wall in Cumbria.
Mr Benjamin suspects that the unit would have been blooded in battles in Germany and the Danube where more inscriptions refer to a unit of Moors. Their number is unknown, but the fort could have held up to 500 men.
"There was freedom of movement for civilians and those in administration of the armed forces. Discharge certificates indicate that the veteran soldiers settled in Britain," he said. "Soldiers would have had plenty of money to spend in native settlements on the outskirts of the forts. They would have sought entertainment in brothels. Many would probably have wanted more permanent relationships."
Mr Benjamin is calling for a major study of black Roman Britons. He believes that DNA tests of locals could reveal genetic links with modern-day north Africans, while skeletons of Romans found in the area might contain telltale clues to their childhood origins.
Buildings in the village may have been built from recycled Roman materials. Some might be of African origin, he said.
The unit is likely to have been composed of Berbers from North Africa, but may also have had darker-skinned soldiers from Nubia.
In 1989, archaeologists discovered a 1,900-year-old wooden sculpture of a black African head in London carved in the first century.
Contemporary records also point to Africans living in Britain during the Roman occupation. The emperor Septimus Severus is reported to have been approached by a black African soldier while he crossed Hadrian's Wall on his return from a battle in Scotland.
In South Shields, a Roman tombstone refers to a 20-year-old "Moor by race, the freed slave of Numerians".
Whether it's Fantasy or Reality, it seems it makes little difference in the end. Apparently Reality is sometimes more Fantastic than Fantasy is.