I agree with both of you. Lorien disappointed me a little. I had expected a sort of dreamy forest, sth like you said, Alyssa. Jackson's version didn't look like the Golden Wood at all... But the stairs bit was great, although I don't think it was in the book, but no matter.
I'm going to think about this topic overnight and may just do a slash and burn, deleteing everthing that is not about Lorien itself. I find I can not cut and paste blocks of post, I can just delete the whole thing or individual posts, or else edit individual posts.
Bummer: I've got too much power which makes the people unhappy, yet not enough tools to both keep Taz happy and let the people eat their cake. [Edited on 11/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Do you think there were any homosexual elves? Has anyone come across any writings about elven sexuality? Because according to PJ, elves only have intimate relations (avoiding bot) every 200 years or so. How the heck does he know that???
And it seems unlikely that a good little catholic boy like JRR would have put any gay elves in, but I wouldn't put it past a 21st century film director.
Gay elves with Tolkien: no. Definetely no! With PJ: perhaps. Perhaps so, who'll tell. But what if... ? The elves sucked in general, whether there were any gay ones among them or not. As a true elf-believer, they were not what I expected them to be in real at all. I'll just stick to my fantasy imagination picture!
Okay Mothers of the World: Have we said anything here your little darlings shouldn't hear. If so tell me and I'll apply my edit button; until then it can stand as written.
according to PJ, elves only have intimate relations (avoiding bot) every 200 years or so
they could just be like snails...snails only mate once in their whole life, but I don't think anybody thinks snails are gay because of that.
Anyway, I think that in a lot of places, elves are just always portrayed as a little bit fruity...it just kind of goes along with the stereotype of the character...
Probably cause the female snail and slug lay closer to a thousand (I'm guessing here kids) eggs rather than the more custumary number of, say two.
I can't remember seeing the flowers that little Elanor was named after, did Peter show them to us.[Edited on 7/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Never had a cheating husband yet...
It must be nice being a worm though...just change one end into a male & get the other end drunk each time you feel like reproducing.
Still, I cant help but think that elves get in the family way very hastily, considering their life-span. What's the hurry?
All this does not really tell us how often they had sex though. Elven women may have been capable of contraception, whether herbal or with some form of mental control. Since they seem to be capable of telepathy - why not other bodily functions?
Still, HW might be right Elrond must be seriously frustrated since his wife has been oversea for about 600 yrs or so...
I think there were the flowers there, they just didn't mention them by name.
Is our forum going to get put on the verboten list because some parent's filter dislikes the three letter "S" word? If so maybe we had better tone it down a bit, except everything we've said here is clean, wholesome even. Forget I said anything, unless you've seen something here you don't want your children to read.
Are there any parents reading this? Not being members, I mean? Can't they just leave instead of us changing our language? (not offending anyone here)
Famous word beginning with a C? Hmmm... Cat? Cop? Cub?
This topic started with the question:
How on earth did PJ know how often Elves enjoy intimate relations?
As far as I know the specifics are not in any of Tolkien's writing. So how did they extrapolate comments like "Elves only have sex every 200 years or so..." Taking artistic licience too far I think, and for what purpose? It is never an issue in the movie or the book...unless Aragorn has some misgivings about his new fiance...(hehe)
So how did they extrapolate comments like "Elves only have sex every 200 years or so..." Taking artistic licience too far I think, and for what purpose?
True, Allyssa. Elves could be more active than monkeys for all we know. As you said, maybe they used contraceptives - or maybe female Elves only ovulated every 200 years or so.
In his essay "On fairy stories" Tolkien writes about the ultimate Joy as being "poignant
as grief". In Lothlorien we feel exactly this kind of joy.
We are delighted with its beauty - and we grieve
for Gandalf... and these two contrasting emotions sum up.
And we know that we have found the most beautiful place to stay in..
but we must leave it very soon.
And we cannot see Lothlorien in blossom: there is winter... and this also adds some sense
sensitive to that!).
In Lorien we have yellow (golden), blue, white, green - but no black and red. Even
the shadows of trees are green and not black. Red and black are the colours of Mordor.
Red (scarlet) seems to be even "worse" than black; the livery of Minas Tirith is black
and black is the standard of Aragorn.
At the very beginning of the story red was friendly and warm -
do you remember these glowing nasturtiums in Bilbo's garden in Bag End?
And after the fall of Sauron black and red seem to be "redeemed", too!
In Cormallen we have trees with dark leaves and scarlet blossom...
I do hope they will.
’omer says "few escape her nets" and expresses utter amazement that Aragorn & co got out of L’rien alive. In context, we are bristling along with Gimli, or at least laughing at ’omer's ignorance, chalking it up to old wives' tales. And yet as Gandalf says, old wives' tales are not mere superstition!
So I was totally caught offguard when I hit this my last read through:
Quoth Faramir to Frodo:
'The Edain, the fathers of the N’menoreans, fought besides the Elves in the first wars, and were rewarded by the gift of the kingdom in the midst of the Sea, within sight of Elvenhome. But in Middle-Earth Men and Elves became estranged in the days of darkness, by the arts of the Enemy, and by the slow changes of time in which each kind walked further down sundered roads. Men now fear and misdoubt the Elves, and yet know little of them. And we of Gondor grow like other Men, like the men of Rohan; for even they, who are foes of the Dark Lord, shun the Elves and speak of the Golden Wood with dread.
'Yet there are among us still some who have dealings with the Elves when they may, and ever and anon one will go in secret to L’rien, seldom to return. Not I. For I deem it perilous now for mortal man wilfully to seek out the Elder People. Yet I envy you that you have spoken with the White Lady.'
He's speaking in the present tense.
And he's clearly saying it's more than one person going there.
So he can't merely be reporting rumors of Thorongil/Aragorn going there after leaving Gondor.
THERE ARE MEN IN L’RIEN! :o
Don't you wish Tolkien had pursued/explained this plotline at some point?!!!
The only reason I edited this post was to turn off an overlong signature.
[Edited on 20/4/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
Reading it again, however, Gandalf came to mind. Gandalf was a friend and teacher of Faramir. No doubt Gandalf visited Galadriel on occasions, and perhaps would mention this to Faramir. Faramir is perhaps saying, "and ever and anon one (Gandalf) will go in secret to L’rien, seldom to return (Gandalf would have been an infrequent visitor to Faramir, just has he had been to Bilbo and Frodo.
I must admit, it is an interesting concept, having Men in Lorien.
As far as I can tell, either there are Men living in L’rien (those who did not return), or the Galadhrim have been steadily picking off the most adventurous citizens of Gondor for some time.
"This puzzle winds itself ever in new riddles."
[Edited on 4/20/03 by sepdet]
[Edited on 20/4/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
I liked the way Lorien was pictured in the movie; not quite my image of it, but it was OK. I guess everyone of us has his view of LotR; it's hard (or rather impossible) to make a movie that pleases all these views! Though I don't agree with the changes to the book, I still think FotR and TTT movies were great!
Anything-that's-Tolkien-related can only be GREAT!!!
Exactky my feeling Lasgalen! And I have seen very Lorien-like woodlands in the "real" world. In September-October hornbeam forests in Poland correspond exactly to the descriotion of Lorien, their floor is golden, their roof is golden, and tree trunks are silvery grey. On a sunny day they turn into a magical land of breathtaking beauty, all made of dazzling sun and lemon-yellow leaves, translucent like crystal or stained glass. Every leaf, every grass is glowing and you feel you made your way to another, enchanted world!
Down paths of oak and yarrow.
Slips fleet of foot and swift of hand..
to loose a golden arrow.
With eyes of sad and silver grey
and hair so golden fair,
walks the hidden hero,
The brave and true, Haldir.