Thread: Barbie in LOTR!
Am I right in thinking there is already a Ken and Barbie as Aragorn and Arwen?
(shudder)
Hideous idea, Barbie as anything Tolkien. Very disturbing.
I thought Ken had been discontinued, some thing called "Blane" had taken his place.
Very eerie doll, to be sure. Might come alive at night to murder us...
(He'd probably ignore the male owners, not wishing to wake them for a mere handshake.)
And besides that, I didn't see any pink in Lorien, at least not the barbie pink.
And Legolass as Ken? Wasn't the new boyfriend of Barbie a surfer dude. That fits the description of Legolass in the movies.
*shudders when she remembers the awful Aragorn and Arwen Barbie*
It wasn't labeled Barbie though, some collectors thing I guess.
http://www.barbiecollector.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=H1179
Legolas
http://www.barbiecollector.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=61170&shelfid=150005
Now you can say what you like now that you know what they look like. Haha.
not good, but if Galadriel and Legolas are 'Ken and Barbie' then where is poor Celeborn? is Galadriel having an affair??? with a very young legolas (well Legolas is young compared to her)
Technically Galadriel & Celeborn were never officially married, hence no problem there. They were merely living together, that's all.
Technically Galadriel & Celeborn were never officially married, hence no problem there. They were merely living together, that's all.
Source? Celebrimbor certainly got the impression they were more than just living together (or maybe not; he did give her a Ring, after all. ) Are you telling me Celebrian was illegitimate? Seems very un-Tolkienlike for them to be "living in sin" but that's just me. Just 'cos we never saw them married doesn't mean anything; we never saw Arwen and Aragorn or Beren and Luthien married either, but given the reaction of the two brides fathers to the mere suggestion I can't think "oh, no, I don't want to marry her, just shack up. Highness." would have flown. It's also entirely possible the internet doesn't transmit facetiousness well. As to Kenolas and Barbadriel... ugh.
But of course, it depends what version of the story of Galadriel & Celeborn one follows; I am talking about the Silmarillion version here, where G & C met in Doriath.
There are of course other versions where G & C met in Alqualond’, for instance, which is something completely different.
never saw Arwen and Aragorn or Beren and Luthien married either, but given the reaction of the two brides fathers to the mere suggestion I can't think "oh, no, I don't want to marry her, just shack up.
Well in the books both couples were in fact officially married, with the acknowledgement of the fathers (eventually). This is not the cause with G & C.
Are you telling me Celebrian was illegitimate? Seems very un-Tolkienlike for them to be "living in sin" but that's just me.
Don't underestimate JRRT. After all, there's Turin & Nienor.
Sorry if this is a tangent from this thread, but I could not leave this point unanswered.
I must disagree with that premise, Mir. Galadriel and Celeborn were indeed Lord and Lady, which meant they were married. I do not know offhand the place in the Silmarillion to which we might refer, and maybe the proof is not there either. But I do not think you can posit something completely alien to Tolkien's mind and claim it must be so simply because you cannot find positive proof otherwise. Look at the overwhelming evidence of the other unions he presents to the reader in LOTR and all his works. Every union of this type was in fact a marriage, and he could not have presented this one enduring as anything other than a marriage.
The "consent" of the parents is merely sought to legitimize proceeding, so that the daughter does not consent to marry without due thought for her own future. But the only real consent needed for marriage is that of the bride and groom. That Tolkien intended this real concept of marriage to be transmitted in his works is confirmed by his engraving "Luthien" on his wife's gravestone and having "Beren" engraved on his own. And since the marriage of Aragorn and Arwen was to mirror that of Beren and Luthien, how can we think that Celeborn and Galadriel, from whom Arwen was eventually to come, were any different? I must conclude they were not any different.
Every union of this type was in fact a marriage, (...)
I wouldn't say every union was a marriage, I would say that every marriage is a union. Seems to me that "getting married" was what the humans did, probably an adaption of the way the "immortals" showed the world that they had found their life partner.
JRRT did write about Elven marriage in "Laws and customs of the Eldar", and i seem to remember that the consent of the parents was of primordial importance (though it's been a while since i read it). Not to mention, once must remember that Beren deemed Thingol's approval to his relationship with L’thien quite important, too (in his eyes, there was no union possible without his approval - cf Sil).
And i agree with Amari’, not every union is necessarily a marriage. But this is true for the present, where it is perfectly normal (albeit not everywhere) for two ppl living together, without being married. But in JRRT's times, not to mention Middle-earth, it was quite something else.
Anyway, as I seem to remember that it was possible for somebody else to replace the parent of the broom/bride, i reckon that Melian and/or Thingol gave their consent (for the same, Galadriel gave her consent as a replacement of Arwen's mother in FOTR, when she handed over the Elessar to Aragorn - which was part of the Elvish marriage customs).
So Galadriel is home free, it seems. I will forget that she married her cousin..
Really, who cares if they were married or not, anyway. They loved each other and were together. That's all that matters.
And i agree with Amari’
Ahhh, I like to hear such things. Makes me feel smart.
But this is true for the present, where it is perfectly normal (albeit not everywhere) for two ppl living together, without being married.
But in JRRT's times, not to mention Middle-earth, it was quite something else.
*nods* I am as usual very bad at explaining my thoughts. It could also be that my thoughts are not logical to anyone but me.
This will probably just confuse people more but here goes.
Many birds choose one partner for life too, but we don't say they are married. Even if they have their rituals and create very strong bonds between themselves before nesting. It may not be a marriage as we see it, but it means a lot to them. In a simular (but more human) way, elves could fall in love and form a union, with rituals which means the same to them as marriage would do to humans (M-E humans). It may not be simmular enough to be called a marriage, since we have so many thoughts, ideas and rituals connected to it, but still it isn't less than a marriage.
The Ainur didn't get married as far as I have heard. Many of the first elves were placed two and two and woke up as couples, but I can't remember reading about any wedding rings. Still there is a union and a bond between the couples, but it isn't called 'marriage'.
Marriage among the Eldar did have a whole lot of ceremony and custom involved, and it seems that G & C did not follow those customs but this does hardly matter. A union is a union, no matter in what form.
I myself, though, do not refer to the union between G & C as 'marriage', that's all, just like that i would not call the union between Manw’ & Varda, Aul’ & Yavanna, Aredhel & E’l, etc. a 'marriage'. I only refer to 'marriage' for bonds between Atani.
And yes, my comment that 'G & C were merely living together' was in fact tongue-in-cheek, I think (I don't even remember what I had for breakfast this morning, after all).
So happy, that Galadriel in the end parted only and Celeborn stayed behind in Middle-earth for a couple of centuries.
Distance increases the longing.
Distance increases the longing.
You mean "Absinthe make the heart go founder"?
Or maybe to get through those boring days in which she was waiting for her Ranger to return on a white stallion and take her away from daddy dearest.
It might have been more useful to knit that Banner of the White Tree, of course, but who knows what she spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all her life seemed shrinking, and the walls of her bower closing in about her, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?
Galadriel: drinking in blissful Valinor (all those crazy parties!), and as if that weren't enough, she runs off to ME to continue her wild alcoholic pursuit (I bet Thingol had quite a stock hidden in his Manycaves). Why else do you think she married Celeborn?
Celeborn: young and carefree in good ole ME, drinking the boredom away (like his granddaughter). Has a boring father (also like his granddaughter). Gets married in hope of a more exciting life (his granddaughter again!)
(until now, I had always surmised that Galadriel had chosen Celeborn because of the latter's colourful Quenya name, "Teleporno")
And such marriages are no longer banned in Boston, but I'm not supposed to bring that can of worms into the conversation, so I won't.
Funny enough, my first marriage was in Boston, Grondy. I wish someone had banned that one.
I have to agree with Gandalf, such a thing would probably never ever enter the Professor's world that he created. That would I think make a chaos of what he made perfect, and the family lines would be nothing then. I think it is implied throughout the entire canon of his work that JRR Tolkien meant marriage, not co habitation. I will do more research but I am quite confident that Gandalf is correct in this understanding. And am confident that to be called Lord and Lady then, in that world and right up until now in English life means the two are married, period.
That Celebrían
exists proves that Galadriel and Celeborn were married.In Tolkien's world
'But these ceremonies were not rites necessary to marriage; they were only a gracious mode by which the love of the parents was manifested, and the union was recognized which would join not only the betrothed but their two houses together. It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete. (...) In days of old, in times of trouble, in flight and exile and wandering, such marriages were often made.'
JRRT, Laws And Customs Among The Eldar, Morgoth's Ring