Well, in LOTR at least some important characters are women (Galadriel, ’owyn, and to a lesser extent Arwen).

Maybe he never wrote about women much, because he wanted to trigger Marion Zimmer Bradley into writing the Mists of Avalon.

Or maybe Tolkien's Middle-earth is just a place where it was not accustomed for women to go on adventures; instead, they were expected to stay at home with the husband and children.

You have to think, Tolkien had based some of his ideas on the world war, the dead marshes were based on the trenches, during the war the only people that really fought in battle were men, and the women had stayed behind to 'welcome them home' and help out with the survival of the country, (red cross) and also to mind the kiddies Similar to Lord of the Rings the men fought in battle and the women stayed behind and helped with other things and to 'welcome them home'. The times that Tolkien lived in were alot different then than what they are like now, ways have changed thats why we find it difficult to agree with some of the ways that things were run back then.

oooh that was different from you, a difference from the nice guy that you are

Of course not, that was what the was supposed to imply. What this world needs, besides a good five dollar cigar, is a few more women Heads of State ! ’ :exclamation: used to yield a smilie similar to

I was his inspiration for Galadriel, weeeeell Dark Queen Galadriel. OK so there is a bit of a time problem there but maybe Tolkien had the power to see into the future.

The whole figure of ’owyn apparently rebelling against her place in society (although there's lots more to it than just that) and eventually settling in her role as faithful spouse (in spe) of Faramir, is perhaps a reflection of what JRRT thought about suffrage and the (changing) role of women in society in the '20s and '30s.

As for Galadriel, in his letters JRRT compared her with the Virgin Mary :
(letter #320)

I think the Good Professor's attitude to women is largely a relfection of the attitude of the time. Like you guys have said, back then women stayed home and minded the children. The fact that he includes a character like Eowyn at all says a lot about his broad-mindedness (for his time). Quite impressive really.

In his letters, Tolkien writes specifically about women. He is very respectful and it is clear that he treats all women like ladies. His understanding of the female sense of humour is quite astute in my opinion.

We are not told a great deal about Arwen in the books, but that does not mean that Tolkien pictured her sitting around all day weaving or sewing clothing for her brothers and father. She seems to have bred horses. Probably escaped capture by orcs when her mother was attacked - and still regularly made the journey to Lorien! (I'd be scared out of my wits!). She also seems to have had considerable political influence in her time as queen of Gondor.

I think that it's possible that Tolkien rarely wrote women because they scared him a little.

I thought she was sitting around in L’thlorien most of her days, sporadically visiting her father. In the story of Aragorn and Arwen mentioned in the Appendices of LOTR, she mentions this.

I have never heard or read anything about her breeding horses, though I do know that Roheryn, Aragorn's horse, was a gift of Arwen's.

If Arwen had escaped capture from the Orcs who took her mother, then surely JRRT would have mentioned such an important detail in the Appendices of LOTR. He didn't, hence I believe it is merely something for fan fiction.


Maybe because John Ronald Reuel's mother gave the mischievous young rascal too many spankings.

Anyway, ask Eruwen : I am sure she'd like to psychoanalyze your query...

For among the Inklings, he was the biggest ladykiller of 'em all.

Not really : L’thlorien was attacked during the War of the Ring, and it was due to the power of Galadriel that it did not fall. Furthermore, after Sauron's destruction Galadriel did throw open the gates of Dol Guldur, in a fashion similar to L’thien throwing open the gates of the Tower of Tol-in-Gaurhoth.


Are you saying that Celeborn was succesful??!! (;-)

Celeborn seemed more the man behind the great woman.


Yes, but eventually ’owyn did settle in the role of 'loyal housewife'. A character like for instance Haleth, never did that.

The Silmarillion only offers one version of Galadriel's story; there are other, and more interesting, versions in Unfinished Tales, chapter 'The Story of Galadriel & Celeborn'.

Of course, because she has aged quite a few millenia since she left Aman, causing her to have much more experience and so she had mellowed out a bit.

Being 'ice' (touched by frost) to me doesn't mean spewing forth reckless, uncontrolled emotion. Instead, it means that she did not show any emotion at all, but rather kept everything inside.

Spewing forth reckless, uncontrolled emotion was something for a fiery temper, like F’anor.


I cannot imagine ’owyn being submissive, nor can I imagine Faramir wanting his wife to be submissive. ’owyn just stopped desiring to become a queen, and instead learned that healing was just as glorious as the deeds on the battlefield she had once desired (and done).

When I was reading Tolkien's letters I was struck by a couple of things. The first is in his childhood and having met and fallen in love with a fellow orphan Ronald really idolized females.
His mother was to him the very picture of a hardworking, brave and noble female. And because she had defied her family and become Catholic and taught him and his brother, she was also a pioneer and a heroine to him because she went against the tide and suffered the consequences.
So in his stories, especially Unfinished Tales and Silmarillion the women are always perfect. They are beautiful, thin like Edith, they were totally devoted to their man unless he turned away from them like Ancalame's father abandoned her and her mother. They were incredibly brave and often when they lost the love of their life they lay down and died from grief.
So he showed that in his works.
But the other thing that struck me was his view of what made t hem perfect and in my mind at least that involved in part being respectful to the man's wishes and behaving a lot like Mary with devotion and chastity and doing woman's things.
When Aragorn spoke to Aewynn about taking her place though I don't think it had a thing to do with male and female roles, rather that one should always accept one's doom. He had to as well, and follow it to the bitter or happy end whatever came.
So getting back to the other t hing that struck me. He complained later on in his life about certain women that dared come to Mass dressed in pants and not skirts and perhaps he might have added without a hat as well.
So he did indeed have some set thoughts about what constituted a woman's place and he showed that in his books. But Theoden's neice DID get to go to battle and she DID win renown . That is something isn't it?

Wait til Red Sonja and Xena (but especially Haleth) hear about this.

I agree, though, with the whole hunter-gatherer anthropological shtick.

Men may be physically stronger than women in general, but women tend to be more dextrous - they exactly know to hit where it hurts the most.

Of course not.

I have always treaded women with respect.

One time at a party a couple years ago there was this older girl that all the other girls, even some of us boys, feared because she has a pretty big girl, with a bigger mean aggressive streak. To make a long story short she got in a fight with one of my male friends and since my bros and I don't hit chics I did the only thing i could (without physically attacking her) to get her off him. I started to called her a few nasty names (she gave my friend a bloody nose, what else was i suppose to do to get her off him?) Anyways she starts comming after me with her fist of fury, luckly i have a few inches of reach on her, so whenever she'd run up with a punch i'd just hold her back and laugh.... until she started throwing the shin kicks that started having a little upwards recoil to them so eventually i had to push her down, then the cops came and broke it up.

Point of the whole story is: She is/was one of toughest girls in town, and i held her off at ease. (I'm no weakling, stronger than your average guy, but i'm definitly not one of the toughest guys in town.)

Don't worry Leelee, we'll find out for sure after i complete my Time-Machine’

Mayhaps the Professor had come across one of these :
Women

Oh Grondy, I know some of those men-women, that is the only way I have of describing them(I still like them t hough) that just love being married to a foppish sort of man.And with faces and lips like those in the picture you share Vir I doubt those lips had many offers!(shudder)
Those are the very ladies that are aghast that my hair is so very long and I am so very feminine.They don't think I can do a hard day's work, go down on to the street in inner city and work with those who are broken, work at my occupation and raise a baby unless I look like .....well like them I suppose. I am always afraid of falling asleep at anyone of their houses in case I wake up and find my hair missing!
But I digress. Of course during the war women would have worked in factories and wore those , what were they called, dungarees or something? Jeans really that were so well made and thick and tough you could have used a pair torn out for a nifty trampoline if you added the springs.
But still I don't think most had lost their femininity and would have gladly traded their 'new found freedoms' for a chance to see the man they loved safe at home again being the master of the house and they the happy wife who saw to h er family's needs and comfort.
Grondy am I just being silly and unrealistic?
Think of how hard Edith worked when h er handsome prince was away, having babies, doing everything and she had painful arthritus poor love.
Turin,,,,,,you are building a Time Machine? How glorious. Please please please may I buy an advanced ticket. I have waited the whole of my life to try out one. sigh....how wonderful.

I gather it is not so bad for a woman to have a little spirit.

But as much spirit as that girl from The Exorcist is not really needed either.

Ya I'd definitly agree with that Leelee. He definitly holds his female characters with much grace and respect in his writings. One of this latest writings(he wrote it a month before his death) was about Galadriel, and Christopher Tolkien put it in UT.

PJ had Gimli speak ill of Galadriel by calling her a Witch me thinks, and right after, Haldir came along and said the famous line "A Dwarf breaths so loud we could have shot him in the dark" (of course in PJ's adaptation)

I don't think that Gimli had called Galadriel a Witch in the books........

Well, let's consider Shelob as Tolkien's Spidergirl - although ironically she liked Venom.


I think she's more like a water nymph. After all, she is the Daughter of the River/Lady of the Lake.