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Hiya Arwen! Smile Smilie (let's just say I'm trying to be nice which is not very easy with a heck of a hangover and a lot on your mind, but I'm doing my best... Big Smile Smilie )

Tolkien did invent all the languages used in his book, except the English. (Big Smile Smilie)
I wonder how he managed to invent them all, and be logical still the same. Guess he must have been both a genious and a madman. (Plastic's favourite topic, btw) Big Smile Smilie
ya, that or he had way to much time on his hands! (kidding, of course. i think hes a genius for doing that!) so had a late night out did we tommy boy?? Big Smile Smilie
That's Tommy Girl or Tommy Lady, even, Lady Arwen. Smile Smilie
didn't tolkien write the stuff just to make and build the languages?
Right as always Mr. Boring. The following is from Tolkien's Foreward (I got it right this time Tommy) to LOTR.
This tale ... was primarily linguist in inspiration and was begun in order to provide the necessary background of 'history' for Elvish tongues.
Back to Tommy's earlier comment:
Tolkien did invent all the languages used in his book, except the English.

True, but al least he has been credited in Oxford dictionary anyway for the invention of the word 'hobbit'.

I also remember reading somewhere that that around the time Tolkien wrote LotR, the acceptable plural forms of 'dwarf' was 'dwarfs' and not 'dwarves' - Tolkien bitched about that somewhere I think. But now, both 'dwarfs' and 'dwarves' are acceptable.
A dwarf dElfs deep? And woke the Balrog from his sleep?

You've got me started now...Big Smile Smilie

[Edited on 25/1/2002 by Ungoliant]
Lol. Big Smile Smilie
Tommy Girl is ok, ta Grondy. Smile Smilie
Is the word hobbit actually in the Oxford dictionary. That would be a good one. Smile Smilie
Yeah it's in Oxford dic. Dunno if it's in Websters too, although I don't see why not.
Woohoo! Tolkien rules! Must tell that to my English teacher! Smile Smilie
Yeah it's in Oxford dic. Dunno if it's in Websters too, although I don't see why not.
Yes, "hobbit" is in my Webster's too. Cool Smilie
From the Oxford dic, 10th ed.:

hobbit ’ n a member of an imaginary race similar to humans, of small size and with hairy feet, in stories by J. R. R. Tolkien.
-origin 1937:invented by Tolkien in his book The Hobbit, and said by him to mean 'hole-dweller'.

Interesting that the word got into the dictionary. I wonder how many more fantasy-based words are in there.
Rubber, Leather, Fetish, Chain, Whip.... the list is endless Wink Smilie
Big Smile Smilie
From Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary Second Edition:
hob'bit, n. [coined in a novel (1938) by J.R.R. Tolkien.] an imaginary being having a very small human form with some rabbitlike qualities, and characterized by sociability, domesticity, and a peace-loving nature.
I see we got it a year later and 'rabbitlike' must pertain to hairy feet and hole-dwelling as I don't remember anyone going sparm over carrots. (Was "sparm" the term used in 'Watership Down' as the state of being immobilized by headlights or a foxes' stare or was it some other word? I can't remember and don't even know if I still own the book.) Cool Smilie[Edited on 12/2/2002 by Grondmaster]
Was "sparm" the term used in 'Watership Down' as the state of being immobilized by headlights or a foxes' stare or was it some other word?

it's "tharn", I think. Funny how I remember that and I don't remember useful stuff.
Funny how I remember that and I don't remember useful stuff.

I keep wondering about that all the time... Big Smile Smilie

Rabbitlike? What's that supposed to mean??? I like this though. JRR Tolkien in an Oxford Dictionary. My English teacher will love it! Smile Smilie
Found naga - far eastern dragon type creature, although shaped more like a sea-serpent. Credited to the Indian/Chinese myths.

Oooh! Found this, Oxford dic. 10th ed.:
orc ’ n (in fantasy, literature and games) a member of an imaginary race of ugly, warlike human-like cratures.
- origin C16 (denoting an ogre): perh. from L. orcus 'hell' or Ital. 'orco' 'monster'; the word was popularized by Tolkien's fantasy adventures

Big Smile Smilie One more! Yay!
Hands up all those who have too much time on their hands.
*puts his hand up*

well, if anyone, like me, has too much time on their hands, I think that you should try and learn to speak sindarin (or grey-elven) which is the most common elven language in ME in the third age. A good site for this is

Cool Smilie Cool Smilie Cool Smilie
Hey that's me Plastic. I've got waaay to much time on my hands, and I'm enjoying every moment of it! Wink Smilie

Hi there D’rwingiel, don't think we've met. Pleased to meet you. Smile Smilie
The same to you, Ungoliant. (you should really learn sindarin :P)
Thanks D’rwingiel, that's no. 5 on my languages to learn list right now. I'm currently busy learning Russian, and a bit of (spoken) Mandarin, with Italian & Japanese sometime in the near future. Alas I have discovered that I have no talent for languages, and it is only my love of vodka, Tolstoy & President Putin that has helped me persevere through the dark days. Big Smile Smilie

Are you learning Sindarin though? If yes, is it easy? I've seen the links on this forum, can you just learn from there or is there a good 'Sindarin in Seven Weeks' book/tape available?
[Edited on 16/2/2002 by Ungoliant]
Big Smile Smilie

Yes, I am (trying to Wink Smilie) learn Sindarin at the moment, and I wouldnt say that its especially hard. (at least if you compare it with mandarin (written Big Smile Smilie)
I know a little basic Klingon, some Huttese and enough Sindarin to have not needed to look at the subtitles in the Movie :o My brother has since however ripped the p*ss out of me so much for this that I will probably never admit it in public again.

You dirty little Tr*kkie..... :P
Live Long and Prosper! (surely you knew that already?)
I didn't know that, for starters! Smile Smilie
I speak Dutch, French, German, English, and I can write and translate Latin, how about that! And I'm only 18... :P
I'm preparing to learn Sindarin as well... Hope it works! Smile Smilie
Made it to 18 at last then Tommy? That must have been one hell of a birthday celebration to keep you away that long! :P
You bet. What a hangover that was... :P
I've been away much too long! A lot to catch up with, so to see... Smile Smilie
You just keep on catching up, it's been pretty quiet since you been gone though. And I spent the best part of 3 months celebrating my 18th back when pints were cheap and fags cost next to nothing, so it's good to see some things stay the same. Smile Smilie
I noticed that, why has it been so quiet? Has everyone else taken a holiday as well? Or is it just because you missed me? :P Only in "characters" it has been really busy! Man, I had more to catch up with than I thought after all! And I still have to revisit the taverns, lord help us... Big Smile Smilie
Lord help us each and every one! Big Smile Smilie
Hey everyone! I'm new to this website. So far there's so much to do!! I just saw FOTR again this Sunday and I can't wait until November when I can buy the DVD. Well I just wanted to say Hi!

Hey Jade, welcome to the club... Big Smile Smilie
I received the following quote in a "Report Post" email against this thread. I now assume Morelen just clicked on the wrong link at the bottom of the thread, which I sometimes do too. :0 Anyway, here is her belated post of approximately 13:22 10 APR 2002. Smile Smilie
Lady Undomiel, if u are interested in Elvish pls contact me (
Can I do that too? Read Smilie
When we talk about languges.... I speak Finnish, Swedish(we have to study it Sad Smilie ) and English...I can say something in Germany but not so much...

Oh yes...I’m very proud of you have something...Tolkien’s quenya (High Elves’ language) is based on Finnish, Latin and Greek.. the most important of these were Finnish... Check this out..:
How does one go about learning Sindarin and Quenya? There doesn't seem to be much of a resource in LotR. The Silmarillion maybe? Or somewhere else? Is there an Elvish-English dictionary to be found somewhere? I only speak English but I know a little German and Spanish (spanish out of necessity). I'd like to add Elvish to my large collection of useless information. Smile Smilie
So do I and I suppose that's what we've been discussing here all the time. Where to learn it, good question. I don't think we've come up with a reasonable and accessible answer. There are some links in these posts here though, which lead to sites where you can find dictionaries, but I didn't think they were very helpful to learn Elvish though... Very Sad Smilie
I guess no one knows the answer to our question Tommy. Alas, we are doomed to wonder for all eternity. Very Sad Smilie
Sorry Tom and Prog, I meant to answer your query earlier but misplaced the thread. Anyway, check out this site:
Pixie Smilie Rednell, this site is incredible ! Not only the languages content but the insights into Tolkiens creation of them. The man was even more of a genius than I previously thought. What has really piqued my interest is why he was so fascinated by languages, that he looked at language as being musical. He considered the languages he created to be art not an academic excersise. I am more fascinated now than ever!

Thank you! Big Smile Smilie I can see myself spending a lot of time at this site!

Does Allyssa know about this? There's tons of biographical info that she might find useful.

[Edited on 7/13/02 by ProgHead777]
Glad to be of help, Prog. Funny you should ask about the bio project. We are working on writing different paragraphs about Tolkien and his relationships. His relationship with language would be facinating. Would you be willing to write something about the topic and e-mail it to Allyssa and me? We would like to make the bio project a group project and any and all help would be appreciated. At the moment Allyssa is working on Edith and Ronald and I am working on John Ronald and his male companions (Inklings, Coalbiters, etc.).
Enjoy the course in Elvish.
Super Wow Smilie
This is awesome!
I Love You Smilie @ Rednell (purely theoretically speaking of course Animated Wink Smilie )
i know i am late coming into this post, but i heard somewhere that there are actual people today who read and write and speak tengwar. i want to say it is over near norway or one of those northern countries. i cant remember where i heard it, but i did and i wish i remembered now!
what is THE LOTR elvbish???????????
what is THE LOTR elvbish???????????
The LOTR is an Inkslish acronym (shorthand) for The Lord of the Rings. The FOTR, TTT, and ROTK represent the three volumes that comprise the LOTR. Big Smile Smilie
can someone tell me:
1; a good Sindarin-English and English-Sindarin
2; a name translator in Sindarin
I guess the uib site didn't do it for you ceocan. Try this site, but do explore it thoroughly before giving up.

Good luck and enjoy. Smoke Smilie
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