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Thread: Elrond and Elros

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Hi, just wondering...why did Elrond choose inmortality and Elros mortality?
I don't have the Silmarillion in front of me, so I can't remember the exact reasons each chose what they did, but I think we have to remember that mortality wasn't always necessarily seen as a bad thing. It was actually seen as a gift to men.

You know, I've always been fascinated with Elrond and Elros...especially the fact that Arwen and Aragorn are actually distant relatives.
I don't believe it actually outlines why, but yes, mortality and the ability to pass out of Middle Earth was Iluvatar's gift to humans, so I can see why an elf might choose it. Really it was just which kindred they felt pulled to more, I guess. I FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHY ARWEN DIED!!!! I just read the Sil pretty recently for the first time, and now that I know about the choice thing. Before, I couldn't understand why she couldn't just go to the immortal lands after Aragorn died, like one of the appendixes says Legolas did. So I think I understand now, it's because she is part human, and she gets to chose.
I found the quote from the Silmarillion:

Now Elros and Elrond his brother were descended from the Three Houses of the Edain, but in part also both from the Eldar and the Maiar; for Idril of Gondolin and L’thien daughter of Melian were their fore-mothers. The Valar indeed may not withdraw the gift of death, which comes to Men from Il’vatar, but in the matter of the Half-elven Il’vatar gave to them the judgement; and they judged that to the sons of E’rendil should be given choice of their own destiny. And Elrond chose to remain with the Firstborn, and to him the life of the Firstborn was granted. But to Elros, who chose to be a king of Men, still a great span of years was allotted, many times that of the Men of Middle-earth; and all his line, the kings and lords of the royal house, had long life even according to the measure of the N’men’reans.

Whatever their reasons for each choosing their particular fate, it is important that one chose the path of Men and the other Elven. Through Elros, the maian blood of Melian strengthened and enriched the Numenorian line, making them wize and strong. This blood eventually became diluted, however, and the strength of the Numenorians waned. Elrond, through his daughter Arwen, was able to enrich that line once more, however, through the descendants of Aragorn and Arwen.
They decided it by tossing a coin, or maybe by paper, rock & scissors. Elros knew Elrond always chose 'rock' as that was pretty much where he got his name from.

Elros was wise not to chose Elfdom - who'd like to be called "Spock" for 6000 years, anyway. Or maybe he just liked those dresses Elfies seem to wear all the time (see the movies) ?

PS : are you feeling OK, Rhapsy? You actually gave a Silly quote there didn't ya.
G'day everyone!

Just a quick message to Eruwen, Where you said that Aragorn and Arwen are related, through elrond and elros, I was under the impression elros's true line ended when numenor sank.
Aragorn is descended from elendil, but Im not sure Elendil was directly from elros's line.

Please can someone confirm this or do I have no idea.
You know, I've always been fascinated with Elrond and Elros...especially the fact that Arwen and Aragorn are actually distant relatives.

Ya Tolkien was down with that whole insest thingy, first It's Turin and his sister, then Aragorn and Arwen! Naughty, naughty Tolkien!
Elros's Great-great grandson Tar-Meneldur had an elder sister, Silmarien. It was from her that Elendil, and ultimately Aragorn were descended. Aragorn might not be descended in an unbroken line of eldest sons from Elros, but he was nevertheless directly descended.
Yes, it was a direct line, as Silmarien was the oldest daughter of Tar-Elendil but at that time it wasn't yet allowed for daughters to become a Queen.

you can read more about her in the Silmarienillion.
Now, i think somewhere in the Silmarillion is explained that marriages should be at least from cousins in second degree so it could happen, therefore, we could say that those two were cousins in second degree.. but not only that, i think Arwen is waaaaaaay older than Aragorn, therefore, she might not only be his cousin, but perhaps she is his grand grand uncle.... (is that correctly said?) Nah.. It is the same issue that provided royal bloodlines in Europe of such gene diseases...
It's more likely that Arwen is Aragorn's cousin in the 500th degree. There were quite a few generations between Elros and Aragorn : first the Numenorean kings, then the kings of Arnor and then the (Glasgow?) Rangers. Hence, any accusations of "incest" are ridiculous.

In fact Galadriel married Celeborn, who is her cousin in the second degree (grandson of Elmo, Olw’'s brother, who was E’rwen's father).

In most countries in the world, cousins in the second degree are allowed to marry.
PS : are you feeling OK, Rhapsy? You actually gave a Silly quote there didn't ya.

I blame work... I hope it lessens soon because it isn't that fun any longer.. Trying to divide my time wisely so sometimes I end up quoting only :-/. I know there is more to Elros decision, but I haven't come around to look beyond the Sil.