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Thread: Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

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How long have you got to write it in Tommy? Cos this could take a while to think about.
Right now I can tell you that it is THE original fantasy novel of which all others pale in comparison and are just cheap rip offs from. That it was written during the second world war and that it is not supposed to be evocative of any period of time at all, as it is a FANTASY novel about nowhere real. However it does evoke an image of pre-war middle england with it's servants (Samwise) and its incessant use of "dark" and "black" warriors as forces of evil.
Source: My own brain, despite it not being the most helpful info ever. Smile Smilie

The Lord of the Rings is the grandfather of the modern fantasy novel genre, and as the Plastic Squirrel has said, it was written during WW II, actually during and on both sides of, from 1936 through 1949. (Use Tolkien's Forward to the Ballantine editions as a reference for dates and also for the postAuthorID's statement that it has no intended meaning and is neither allegorical nor topical).

The epic's time period can conveniently be set in the period before the last Ice Age (some 15000 plus years ago) and can be said to have taken place in the vicinity of Northwestern Europe. (This can help explain why none of the artifacts of the elven/dwarven/human civilizations have been found by archeologists and possibly why only humans remain (in any known numbers), all the other non-aquatic sentient beings, having either died off or gone into hiding. (Of course as the Plastic Squirrel has, time and again, been want to say, "Its not real for *****'s sake! Its only a book!!"; you should take the forgoing with a grain of salt.) Big Smile Smilie

Hope this gives you a little more to work with. Wink Smilie
Thanks you guys, that helped me out a bit indeed. Big Smile Smilie
Plastic: I have till next sunday to finish it, I have to hand it in on monday! :o
If you have time Tom, I suggest Tom Shippey's book JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century. He addresses this topic as does the National Geographic film Lord of the rings:beyond the movie. As already mentioned the book was written during the 2nd world war. Tolkien did not like any reference to his work as "allegory", however, he would accept the term "applicability". This is significant as Tolkien perferred to leave the interpretations to the reader according to his environment rather than limited to what we suppose influenced the postAuthorID's writing. The themes in Lord of the Rings can apply to the early 20th century, the wars and the raping of the land by industrialization just as they can be applied throughout the world today. That is the neat thing about Tolkien and "applicability", it is timeless. Tolkien drew on his extensive knowledge of mythology and medieval history for the physical settings in the book. Good vs Evil, a timeless theme. One that haunted Tolkien, no doubt, through witnessing 2 horrific world wars.
Hope this makes some sense. I'm not good at writing off the top of my head in a forum, like this.
Good luck on the essay.
Couldn't have put it better myself Rednell. Good one. Smile Smilie
As for reflecting any particular time, I think that Tolkien's world has no consistency. I would not agree that it is a story set somewhere in the "real" time, before the Ice Age... Look at all these Victorian paraphernalia found in the Shire - such as the famous umbrella of Lobelia Sackvlle-Baggins! Or a letter from Gandalf (shown by Barliman in Bree): it has been written on a paper, wasn't it? (Bilbo also is writing on paper when in Rivendell...). And the quetsion of tobacco and famous "taters" (potatoes) of Gamgees: they are New World plants! In particular, potatoes did NOT grow in our Old World in these times - they started to be cultivated here fairly recently!
I'd say that the time of LOTR is a dream-time, and its reality is a dream-reality, the reality of our "internal world". Tolkien himself compared all experiences to leaves falling on a leaf mould, and then fermenting to feed the germ of the story...

[Edited on 9/4/2002 by Eryan]
I totally agree with you Eryan!
Nicely put Eryan. The interesting thing about fantasy is that there are no absolute expectations of reality, internal or external. When reading fantasy we must also take into account the perception of the external reality, which as with the dream timescape (internal reality), reveals how the reader applies the events of the novel to what he perceives his physical, political and social surroundings are. I really think this is what Tolkien was trying to achieve and why he disliked the term "allegory".
Great discussion.
I know its not real. Middle Earth's time has no place in our history; however, it might be located in a parallel universe, but I doubt if anyone will buy this either. Big Smile Smilie
Why not, actually? We've bought everything already, I guess. Big Smile Smilie
Hello Rednell, thanks!
I agree with your comments about why Tolkien disliked allegory - he preferred the Elvish art of Enchantment, as he called it in his essay "On fairy stories"...
There is also more discussion on dreamlike character of fantasy worlds in the thread "Insult Tolkien?" in "Author"...
Thanks, Eryan
I will seek out that thread. It sounds like a topic I would really be interested in reading.
RednellBig Smile Smilie
I would like to thank y'all for your comments here, cos I've managed to finish that topic of the essay now, and I will be working on it for the rest of this day and prob. tomorrow as well, so that'll be why you won't see me around here then... :smoke
Well actually on the topic 'when did it take place'...

[...]I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh.

The Letters
Is that in our reckoning, or in Tolkien's?
The quote is all Tolkien's Smile Smilie
I handed in my essay yesterday, and I'll get my marks in some weeks time. I'll post them here when I've got them. Thanks again, y'all! Dunce Smilie
Yo people out there! I'd just like to thank y'all for helping me out so well. I got my marks!!!
I got a 89 out of 100!!!
Dunce Smilie
Pary Smilie
Birthday Smile Smilie
Tigger Smilie
Kiss Smilie
Birthday Smilie
In Love Smilie
(just so happy, you can't believe it!)
Thanks again all! Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie
Meet me in the tavern, the next round is on me!! cheers!
Well done! An 'A'!
Pary Smilie
Any chance of you posting the finished essay anywhere?
Hot Dog Smilie!!! Well done indeed. Big Smile Smilie
Fantastic!!!! Way to go!!! Gotta love those A's.
Thanks y'all, but I couldn't have done it without you guys! So thanks again! I recommended PT as a site for everything related to Tolkien, and I mentioned you all who helped me out here. Big Smile Smilie
I would love to post it here, but it's in Dutch. When I find the time to put it in English, I will, promise. Will take some time though... Sad Smilie
nice one! Smile Smilie good to hear we're good for something round here!
Hey Tommy, you can mail the Dutch version to me. The original is always better as the translation, no? Ha Ha Ha Smilie
Oh yes, good idea. What's your address? You can post it here, or private-postBody it to me, if you want to, gnampie. Big Smile Smilie
Tommy: You can find Gnampie's email address in the Website Member Directory, whose link is to the left and at the bottom. Smile Smilie
Grondy: She has already mailed it to me... Tongue Smilie

I've nearly finished the translation of my essay, have about 5 pages yet to go. Will try to finish it this weekend, then I'll post it on Monday. Where can I post it? Disturbed Smilie
Well for now, I suggest you make it a new topic under Books: The Lord of the Rings. If deemed necessary later, we might move it elsewhere. Smile Smilie
You got it. I'll be posted there in a minute! Ta folks! Big Smile Smilie
Hey guys im new but i have a few questions do you talk to other people or ask questions? Cool Smilie
Congratulations! You have just succeded in both! Birthday Smilie Pary Smilie
Welcome to the site, King gil-galad. As Grev pointed out, you have succeeded in both your questions. If you want to chat, however, try entering the chatroom via the chat icon on the top menu bar.
I try logging in on the chat thingy, but I cannot connect. I guess the Under construction policy applies. I complain not. But once you connect, the possibilities are endless...
Elf Smilie
Well, some can and some can't, it seems. Dunno why... You get a box from Jpilot? Do you have Java enabled? Or i s it just here?
I guess it’s just here... whatever you meant. I am at a school, so the chat protocoles are disabled. Yet, I managed to log into this chatroom from here before. Then Melkor kicked me out of it. Then I couldn’t log in anymore. But I blame it on the Under costruction sign up front.
Ha Ha Ha Smilie