Thread: Map of the entire of Arda
Does anyone know of any maps of the Entire of Arda in the Third Age?
No, the best you can do is the portion shown in for the Second Age and then extrapolate the changes shown in greater detail for different areas in the Third Age, all as shown in the late Karen Wynn Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-earth, revised edition. The 210 pages of this atlas is well worth the price as it isn't like some of those foldout maps of Third Age Middle-earth that only cover the area of LotR. It also includes info from The Silmarillion, UT, and the first nine volumes of H.O.M.E. as well as very detailed maps covering The Hobbit and LotR.
oooh this is my subject, although i can not tell you of the map of arda in the third age only in the first, but what Grondy said is true. Recently ive been searching for various books on the maps of ME or anything Tolkien related, and low and behold, i found an amazing book that had big posters of all the main maps of Tolkien's complicated world.
They are beautifully drawn by John Howe, i have studied them very carefully, i have gained much knowledge from them, especially the map of Beleriand, my favourite of them all. They are all drawn ot the time period of the book that they are based on, ME is at the end of the third age. Beleriand is the time of the Silmarillion, there is even a map of Rhovanion (Mirkwood Forest) at the time of Bilbo Baggins's journey to The Lonely Mountain and there are loads more. I suppose you can call the maps 'my subject' so to speak. Which i am glad i have found.
Does anyone else have any specialised books on the maps??? id be very glad to know which ones you have and then find for myself
Yes I have the Atlas of Tolkien's middle-earth (thanks grondmaster) I was just after something on the internet.
Even harder - do you know of a map of Arda on the internet before the collapse of the Pillars of light? That map is in the atlas but I cannot find it on the internet.
Hi, am coming late to this thread but David Day's 'A Tolkien Bestiary' features a complete map of Arda showing all the places featured in the Silmarrillion, the Hobbit and LOTR. It shows where the Lamps of the Valar were placed, Tol Eressa, Uymno, Angband and Numenor.
Do you know where I could find that online?
Lord of All is building a collection of online maps on his website; they are pretty good.
What is the website called, i dont see a link, id love to see some of the stuff youve got
Maybe I mispoke, maybe it was someone else's website and now I can't find the thread with the link to it. It had many maps, including First Age maps.
Lol... That used to be this site, Grondy... before the nice men in black suits made us take them down. We had all sorts of maps, including several showing the whole of Arda, and the collection from the Middle Earth Role Playing modules (which are among the best maps of Middle Earth around).
We still have a few maps in the gallery, but there used to be four pages of them once upon a time.
I was looking for this thread just yesterday
The Encyclopedia of Arda has a great maps section
. It is fairly extensive and easy to find what you're looking for, though not all the maps are as detailed as one might hope. There is also a bit on Family Trees and Genealogies which one finds helpful from time to time!
Yes, we used to have them as did many others until the suits made us get rid of most of them. My offline edition of the Encyclopedia of Arda has a good assortment and the suits probably overlooked the online version's. However, that site I recently visited had some from even Fonstad's book; its URL was posted on this site, but I can no longer find that URL.
Darn lawyers, we never needed them until after the first one appeared out of the woodwork. I do believe copyright laws are there to protect the property rights of the originators of art and the written word, but we still ought to be able to have an online collection if we don't sell it. It might help if our collection could be made non-copyable too. Oh well, life goes on....
I have found a couple of maps which are pretty good. The First one is about how Arda looked in the very beginning:
When the Ainur first descended
Secondly this is how Arda looked after the fall of the great Pillars of Light:
After the Fall of the Pillars
The next is of Arda in the First Age (after the War of the Powers):
The last is of Arda in the second age:
Council Members Note: none of the above links lead to another site - they all lead just to a blank page with the image on.
About the map of the Second Age : I do not think Mordor once was the Sea of Helcar; the Sea of Helcar was located where once the roots of Illuin had been, hence in the north of Middle-earth.
If this were true, the Elves wouldn't even have reached Beleriand on their journey into the west, since Cuivi’nen was near the Sea of Helcar.
So perhaps could you enlighten us where you came upon that information?
P.S. : on the map, "Formenor" isn't confused with "Formenos", is it? For F’anor's fortress lay in the north of Valinor, hence on Aman.
Firstly Modor was roughly where the Sea of Helcar once lay.
The proof for this is that after the War of Wrath the Sea of Helcar did not dissapear but simply shrank into lessar seas - Rhun and Nurnen.
The second point you bring up:
The Sea of Helcar took up far more space than did Mordor. It extended further northward by about 200 miles or so and seeing as the Elves awoke on the Eastern shores of the inland sea (near the oracarni mountains) they would have had to ge north and stay north for about 400 miles or so. Thus when finally the sea of Helcar came to its western end they still could not go south becuase of the dense forests that lay there. They had to keep going west flush with the northern shores of the sea of Helcar.
Thus there route would have brought them very slightly south of Beleriand.
The northern Pillar of light, Illuin, was not that far north. It was on the northern side of the Great lake (first map). We know this becuase the light it gave 'Ran cold and dim' in the Iron mountains.
Formenor is not Formenos but some other name for the northern region of Middle-earth. I cannot say I have encountered it however.
Lord of All's placement of Mordor located where the south-western portion of the Sea of Helcar was, is correct according to Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth,
as are the other maps in his post. Lord of All's and Fonstad's maps probably originated with Professor Tolkien's maps in HOME Vol. 4, The Shaping of Middle-earth
, which I have, but which I have yet to read. Lord of All's maps seem to be those of Tolkiens with some added color and some different labeling, but I can't tell if they are copies or if they have been redrawn; it doesn't matter, they are different from those in our gallery.
I wonder, considering how much JRRT changed some of his stories throughout his life, did his maps of Arda & Middle-earth change too?
Grondy - the come from Tolkien Forums and I believe they were remade using 'The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth' as a guide. They do have some additional labbling and different colours, but they are accurate.
Virumer - The only maps I have seen Tolkien himself draw was of Northwestern Middle-earth, Beleriand, Numenor and Mount Erebor and the surrounding area. Perhaps somewhere in the HOME series he did reveal a more extensive map collection. As for new revised maps I am not sure but I doubt it as he probably based his stoy plots around the maps rather than his maps around the story.
I failed to fully explain myself yesterday: There is a sixteen shiny page insert in the Ballantine paperback edition of HOME Vol. 4, The Shaping of Middle-earth, (ISBN 0-345-40043-7) which contains the professor's hand drawn maps of Middle-earth. These are undoubtedly the original source of LoA's and Karen Wynn Fonstad's maps, which I hadn't realized until yesterday. Sorry.