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Thread: Which Element describes you ?

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Last evening as I lay waiting to fall asleep, I considered Middle-Earth and then ours and I thought of different people on Planet-Tolkien and images came to my mind. I began to wonder how each of us might describe ourselves and thought a simple way to do it would be to name ONE ONLY element- wind earth fire water and tell which describes us best. For me I would say definitely Earth. I love water and fire and wind, but earth, the rich soil upon which hang the rythmns of planting, watering , growing, harvesting and all the beauty in each action soothes my soul, brings me peace., So I am Earth Anyone else like to give this a try?

LeeLee, are you also down-to-earth person?

This is a interesting question. I'd say Air probably (which is also the element of my zodiac sign, if anyone believes in those things, I'm not).

Why Air? I am a volatile person, my mood can change dramatically in one minute. I'd love to have more calmness in my behaviour (Earth is very peacefull in my opinion), but just like the air - I can be quite quiet and then suddenly something moves me. I wouldn't  see myself  as Fire element, because Fire reminds me of an extrowert person, very bold, brave, dynamic. I am a very sensitive person, I tend to  think a lot about things. I can see some zephyrs and windstorms in me, not a steady flame. And I'm afraid of deep water, so I discarded this option automatically.

Indis I think yes I am very down to earth in the fact that while others may live their dreams in a singular way-in other wards they basically feel to put their selves first in order to achieve that dream, time away from family , going away from loved ones to do what needs to be done- I would never think of it. Although I have been a dance teacher, women's editor, worker with elderly, worker with battered, abused and at risk children, I have been able to do these things and still take care of the needs of my loved ones. I have turned down marriage twice since the loss of my loved one in order to ensure my children would never be distressed by someone that would not love them like i do, I could not do it. I take longer to achieve my dreams but the hard way is what i chose and i am content. I am very prudent with money and yet in the end the hoped for things come. And for whatever reason and I do NOT understand why , people flood to me for comfort and hope or for counsel and honestly I can barely cope with my own life. I weep day and night, mostly in private for any one in this world who is broken and hurt and alone so really I don't make for a fun time with others. Therefore I am a private person a lot. And yet sometimes , it used to be much more, but I cannot rid myself of people who come and see me or meet me and think I am hilarious and want to be around that. They cannot understand I use humour to help them heal, I do love humour , but am basically a serious person. So, yes I am rather earth bound and grounded although I write children's fantasy books, full of faeries and ancient teachings, full of quests and strange heroes and heroines. Go figure!

My littlest one is volatile also and terribly sensitive, in fact she has an anxiety disorder. So one moment she can be peacefully drawing, she is a genius in art, and the next , feelings hurt she is trying to kung foo me, it can be hard,. But what a heart and I am thinking you too have a wonderful heart Indis. How glad I am you are come to us. I mean that.

It's long ago since I have post on a thread, except some game threads. But here I go:

I actually can't choose which element. I love water, I like swimming. The oceans, the rivers and the lakes are always so beautiful. Fire is something that radiates power and strength. It's not something that appeals to me.  Air and wind have something magic. I can't describe what but when it's windy and I walk outside, it feels for a moment that all my worries are away. Earth is something special. I love nature. Trees, plants and flowers are so beautiful and lovely. And al the animals are so wonderful and special in there own way. I can't choose between them. The one can not exist without the other. If there was no air, there was no nature, and when there was no nature, there were no animals, and we and the animals need water and air to live. So I don't choose one.
But if I most say one than I say Earth. The calmness that the earth and nature radiate. I'm a quite quiet person. I think a lot about things. Sometimes I think deeper about things than most of my classmates and children of my age. I don't know which element is a symbol for rest.

It is not a really answer to your question. But I was thinking about it so I thought to post something.

P.S. if there are any spelling mistakes, sorry, I'm not very good at English.

Only a few posts later and I already love this thread! Thank you for sharing, each one of you! Somehow reading your posts I feel like I know you personally, especially you Leelee. I need no convincing to belief in what you have written because that posts echoes the feelings and emotions that I have come to attach to you in my years here! Smile Smilie


As for myself I would say that the Water Element suits me most. While I love earth, its scents and the wonderful things which grows out of it, I identify myself with water. Each and everyone of us have thoughts and feelings and dreams known only to us, as well as hopes and expectation. One can say that I view myself as an Ocean known to ships who travel through it. But the knowledge is limited to what they see on the surface. The real person lies underneath, in the depths of the ocean where few people, if any can go.


An ocean of unknown depth, where real beauty, understanding, knowledge and thought are  kept out of reach of people. Its a place of secrecy but delight and love for me. I do not share it willfully because people are too greedy, self centered and money minded these days. They do not understand things like piety, pure love, Truth and compassion.


Thus like an Ocean or water, I am accessible to everyone who wants to know me, but my true self is hidden in the depths of the ocean where only those who can, see through to it. Smile Smilie

That thread is great for knowing more about the people who share your interests. I have to say that the things we analyze here aren't definitely something that I would gladly discuss with everybody I met online. And writing that, considering I'm still a newbie here it says a lot about the PT forums.

I love your justification, Thorin. 

And Arwen - it is a tough choice indeed.

LeeLee, thank you so much for being open enough to share those very personal thoughts with me. With us actually. I am always far from judging people I meet online, but from your posts I can totally see why people seek for your help - even the way you're writing here is based on kindness, respect and appreciation for your fellow PT members. It's a rare thing to observe in the Internet based relations. From my experience at least. I am a very private person too, and I know exactly from what experiences in my life does it come from (along with the sensitivity) - not exactly a subject for a public discussion, but as you can see - I'm already telling you more about me that I did anywhere in the Internet. You have some power, woman!

Yeah, yeah, By the way, Rachel. Hullooo! Considering this thread.. I'm not much into these kind of things, but if I'd have to choose an element, it would definitely be wind.

My whole artistic name is based on it, and it's the strongest force on this earth. Wind, it can create devastating, but miraculous things.

It's a force that shouldn't be toyed with. It's a power that is able to undo anything that  stands in it's way.

Whether it's winter or summer, the power of wind is undeniable.

So, Oerath Windsoul goes for the windy days!

I have to say that the things we analyze here aren't definitely something that I would gladly discuss with everybody I met online.


That is absolutely spot on! We might not be as numerous as we were before, but we are certainly a tight group, family and a band of best friends. I myself am a rather private person and rarely share personal things with others, but PT is different. We are not weighed down by personal feeling, or how people see us and we are able to express ourselves without fear of being judged.


I am a member of a few sites but PT is the only one where I have actually shared my real name or info with what some might call "online people" but who I consider as real friends!

I'm sorry for double posting, but I was going over your post again Arwen and it is almost as if I could hear you reading that post. It is very touching and thoughtful from someone of your age Smile Smilie

I love this thread, what type of element someone thinks they are like tells you much about a person

I have been told many a time that I am like water and I totally agree.

It is tranquil and passive in general but has its moments of rage and anger. I am not quick to anger but as water can be churned to a fury I can too.

Water seems to have a clear aspect to it and is quite transparent and like myself as I could not hide anything to save my life.

I would have to say that it's the combination of Earth, Wind and Water that does it for me. Tolkien tells us in the Silmarillion that nature takes hold in combinations of the shared powers of the Valar. Manwe's breath (air) takes up moisture, water, Ulmo's creation, and takes it into the high airs of Ilmarin, it travels high above Arda and is dilivered back to Aule's Earth to help feed life as we know it. It's a perfect Devine circuit of nature, created ultimately by Eru's master design, kindled by the creation of the Sun and the Moon. There is info on this system in the Silmarillion within the pages of the chapter " Of Yavanna and Aule". Wonderful descriptions of the circle of life abound. Constantly under attack by Melkor.

Hello everyone! I'm quite new here, having just discovered PT, but after reading a few of the forums, I feel like I'll fit in quite well. Smile Smilie

I would have to say earth describes me the best.  I love the ocean and swimming, but I find that water is always changing its shape and forming to its surroundings.  I'm a big camper, so fire is very important to me, but it is too fiery and I do not have an outgoing, extreme disposition.  And I'm terrified of heights, so that rules out air.  Earth is very calm to me, though it can definitely be unpredictable and dangerous.  I am a very calm, down to earth person, and it describes me perfectly.

Welcome Eol! Great Even Smith of the Iron from the sky. One of my favourite characters from th Sil. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Welcome to PT Eol!

Quite funny, I don't even recall posting that post, but wind, it surely fits.

During winter times, when the wind gets past 'biting', it makes my skin to shiver, but during summer, spring or autumn, when the wind is very easy, it doesn't bother me at all.

I recall that the best days of last summer were those days, when it was very windy and the skies were grey and it wasn't that hot, my tolerance is 10-15+, after that it gets way too warm for me. Sometimes I wish that winter's would last for long years, just like in 'A Song of Ice and Fire'. Smile Smilie

Standing on a cliff during a windy day, wind shaking tops of all trees, flowing your hair from side to side. Nothing can beat that feel.

Anyway, welcome to PT, Eol.

Oerath and wind go together like hand in glove.

I am astounded at how you each describe yourselves, so fluently and with such accuracy, well i say that because of the feeling that overwhelms me when I read each. No hint of deception or bragging or falseness. You all would make a great once apon a time. i firmly believe that each of us is a once upon a time and we can choose at the age of understanding who we wish to be, the hero or heroine, the villain, the bystander, the servant, the king or queen. And we live out our own story. Yours are breathtaking so far.

Eol, namarie, how wonderful to meet you. And now we already know a little about you. I asked one of my family members which element he thought he was, he was told in school he would not achieve much and here he is, teaching about eight languages and is also an amazing teacher of philology.

He replied that he was definitely the wind and he said one thing that gave me a shivery thrilling feeling. He said he liked to sit outside on a windy day and when the wind became very loud he felt he could hear Eru talking to him from the Sacred Place and he listened intently and learned much. Awesome.

I did not know I was of the earth as it were until I was past my teens. Before that i went for a long walk nearly every day because it was the rule of the house. And sometimes in my wanderings I would go to faerie land and imagine all sorts of things and find , when I came to myself I was five or six miles from home in a huge city and had to find my way to the busy commercial section , have my tea and then take the bus home. Unless I forgot my bag and then it was walk all the way back. But I saw very little of nature for i was a total book worm. I was made a silly cheerleader for three years, despite my appalling shyness and I was in an all girl band and sang lead(I loved to sing but had to look away from the crowd or faint. And I was in the dance and what ballet dancer ever pays attention to much except practise and going to the doctor for one's feet and what you can eat? No I only saw nature in books and I devoured books.

But all that walking as a teen suddenly woke me up. I saw the magnificent maple and pine trees, went into forests, walked at the beach and listened to the gulls in the rain, went on boats across the waters to islands seldom tread upon, climbed mountains and found I not only could not ski but seemed almost able to defy gravity and go backwards uphill aways before descending.

And then one golden day I looked at the good earth, so rich and fragrant and alive and life giving and fell in love . Grew flowers and other lovely things , loved the feel of taking the veggies out of the cold soil and washing them carefully and thinking, 'I grew these, I did.' It was the quiet serene sameness of the earth in every season that won my heart.

Hello, Eol! Welcome here!

I love this discussion, people. It's so refreshing to read your answers.

I was thinking of Tom Bombadil and his wife Goldberry. And I can't decide which element best suits them even though it would seem terribly obvious. I mean Goldberry did have those containers of water lilies all around the house and she was the river king or some such strange being's daughter. But the fact that she was comfortable in a house on the land eating white bread and butter and honey , for the rest of her life, hmmmmmmmmmm. I don't know for sure.,

Amarie I am anxiously awaiting your answer, and Fen's and Loss and my hero Vir and our resident Pet Shop Boy and genius Taz and all the rest. i long to know. And all the rest of you, come please and share. It is terribly exciting thinking of each of you and which element you might be.

I have often thought about what element would best describe me, but have never really endeavored to find the answer. I do so know. I have already a picture in my mind of what each element looks like, and the personality traits they represent, which might contradict what others see, but here it is:

Earth represents strength, in mind and in body, and a will of steel. Earth is fiercely loyal, sometimes stubborn (but perhaps not a vain stubbornness, if you understand), yet kind, nurturing, and full of life. One of the earth is firm in his beliefs, and in friendships. Earth rejoices in fellowship, and is willing to sacrifice for it, and is ready always to listen or speak or simply be there when needed. One of earth with stick with you, through thick and thin, ups and downs, and through your mistakes and his/hers.

Water is wise, knowing. Knowing when to speak, knowing when to be silent. Water is calm, careful, patient, but when water's wrath is kindled, there is indeed a reason to be afraid. It has the power to crush men and trees, bring cities to the ground, sweep away whole towns. Yet still, water sustains life, and can be soft and gentle, as well as terrible. It gladly gives counsel, and teaches truth. Water is beautiful. Whether turbulent and raging, or still and calm,  water is beautiful.

Wind is a wanderer, ever moving, seeking what no man knows or understands, seeing the unseen, as wind itself is unseen. It carries with it many memories, stories and songs, myths, legends, and lost hopes, which none can hear unless they sit and listen with open and honest hearts. Wind is a lover of beautiful things, of art, tradition, style. Wind can blow soft and warm, and it can bring massive destruction. It gives life to hidden music, is a bearer of secret knowledge. Wind is mysterious, never staying in one place, rarely bearing its heart, yet it is honest, trustworthy, just, and modest.

Fire is power. Power is not strength. Strength is a measure, a describer of a person, but power is its own. It is a growing, breathing thing, that flares and spreads, raging and destroying, or comforting and soft. Fire is passionate, full of intensity and feeling, whether that feeling is rage, grief, desire, vengeance, love, pride. Fire believes strongly in swift justice, in true love, and in the honor of a warrior, the chivalry of a knight. It is just, true, sometimes proud, and never gives in.

  Of course, most people will be in between a few or all of these, myself included. I believe I am somewhere between earth and wind. I am shy, except when around friends that I know very well and I trust. I love art and music, culture, tradition. I believe, too, that I have an honest heart, though I'm not too open with my feelings except with but a few. I am always moving and changing, like the wind, seeking and seeing what few have seen before. Like earth, I stand firm in my beliefs, and am not easily swayed. I care greatly about my friends, though I'm not always sure how to express it. I might be a bit mysterious,(might) and I try to be there always for my friends, whatever they need, and to be as much as they are to me. So, I lean towards wind, but I've got some earth in me, too.

 This thread is so great, and I love the fact that all of us feel safe here, and are honorable and worthy of trust. Anywhere else I'd not share something like this, but how different PT is! This is wonderful, thanks to all of you!

Rukain, what an amazing post!

Wind is a wanderer, ever moving, seeking what no man knows or understands, seeing the unseen, as wind itself is unseen. It carries with it many memories, stories and songs, myths, legends, and lost hopes, which none can hear unless they sit and listen with open and honest hearts. Wind is a lover of beautiful things, of art, tradition, style. Wind can blow soft and warm, and it can bring massive destruction. It gives life to hidden music, is a bearer of secret knowledge. Wind is mysterious, never staying in one place, rarely bearing its heart, yet it is honest, trustworthy, just, and modest.

Your description reassured me about my choice. Saying that I must admit I am a bit involved art in my tiny way.

Also I would add that music reminds me of wind. If I would have to categorize music, it would be the same energy as wind. And I absolutely love music - never been a musician, never had any musical talents in me - but I'm kind of fascinated by orchestras. There's something so beautiful and intangible in the orchestras, that it makes me speechless.

Oh Thorin, I find some of your posts here so touching! You have a noble heart. I agree with the opinion on the online friends. I don't use the internet for making friends, in fact this is the only website where I chat with people or write my opinions and thoughts on this posts. It's difficult to find people that don't judge you for your character, ideas or whatever. And in PT I found out very nice people, even if I only new few of you, I can say the ones I could chatted were friendly and given me a good impression. I feel comfortable here. The unique thing I can miss is that I know you maybe more than the friends you have face to face diary and I will never meet you out of here; at least to see your faces and give you a big hug. I can open my heart in PT and that's an amazing feeling. Thank you all. I'm sorry if what I write seems fussy but life takes us to some paths we even couldn't imagine and actually I'm living days I've never dreamt of. I'm very sensitive nowadays.

Related to this thread, I muss tell you that I feel I have a bit of every element but if I have to choose one, that's water. Water can be crystal clear, pure and merry when it flows down the mountain in little streams, running through several places, it can be the dumb guardian of the forests, an also a lovely mirror for the sun, moon and stars. That's the peaceful face we can see of the water. However it can be savage, terrible and destroyer. In the depths of the ocean, nobody have ever been, nobody will ever reach to discover the slightest life living there in the shadows of its own creation. Me, as the water can be still (often) but I keep thousands of secrets inside of me which will be shared only for the ones who really cares about them. Loyal friends or relatives are those who don't say what you want to hear but what you need.

Arwen, you are a girl worthy of admiration, so young and so sensible. Lovely!

This thread is so wonderful. It's amazing how much one word, one element can say about a person. The way you all speak and write is truly unique and awesome, and I love reading all these posts! Also, I'm interested in the fact that no one has chosen Fire. So few really are there who resemble fire, even among my friends from outside PT. I wonder when I'll meet one... or if I already have? Something to ask friends, this element question. It's really great! Your answers all show great understanding. I love being here.

What thought provoking responses a simple question has raised.

I work at sea and am always drawn to water, whether it be the sea, rivers, lakes, streams or (my favourite) waterfalls. My first response to the question was to answer water, but deep down I don't think that is the answer. Water is my love but not me.

Myself, I am earth. I do not flow easily, but tend to be steadfast and stubborn. I am down-to-earth and like stability. I am an earthly Taurian star-sign. I love forests, and whereas flowing water brings me joy, I feel an empathy with forests and their smells and sounds. I am also awestruck by mountains and their sheer size.

I always wondered at the match of Tom Bombadill (earth spirit) and Goldberry (water spirit), but this post has made me finally realise their attraction to each other. Rivers and earth are intertwined.

"People of many nations, tongues and tribes...." AND ELEMENTS!

Rukain, I know we have talked about this before and I know we share many of the same thoughts about what each element stands for. Good job describing each one!

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Wind. I am a wanderer in reality and in my thoughts. I love music, play guitar and love singing. The Wind is full of music. I love the smell of the the stormy Wind. Wind is a type of beauty that cannot be seen, and sometimes I feel that is how I am.

Next thing that probes my thoughts on this topic, is that I have a significant amount of Earth in me. I am greatly attached to everything (but the science) of trees especially. Also, I am strong willed and open. I enjoy hiking and walks in woods.

Water is a wonderful element, however, it does not suit me.

Fire. I do occasionally have a hint or spark of fire in me. If something greatly angers me that I am decidedly against, I can really flare up. I also try hard to be chivalrous as the knights of old were instructed to be.

That was fun and interesting to think about again. Thanks everyone, for your own input. It is enjoyed thoroughly.

It's difficult to find someone who describes himself/herself as fire...  Fire is maybe the most powerful and for me, terrifying element. It has the shade of meaning for purifying and rebirth. That's to say, we all had a bad time or experience and me at least had burnt things which remained me of such days. Furthermore, what about Phoenix? it was reborn from its ashes. That shows power too. When someone falls to the bottom and once there that person gets the strength to get up again. Very important detail: it doensn't matter how many times you fall but the times you get up!!!


Leelee, this was a great idea. Very good thread!


When it comes to Fire - I think extroverts could relate to the nature of Fire. Personally I believe that 'a fire person' has a lot of moxie - and shy people won't probably describe themselves as Fire. I'm definitely not bold, (well, now I am - haha), so I can relate - certainly would not call myself "Fire".

Val I love how you describe water as your love but the earth as you. I think perhaps many make the mistake of thinking what they love is them and then find grief or despair or depression , a  sense of loss when their lives don' t somehow fit. How much better to know the difference between what we passionately love and who we are. To me that is worth so very much and will pull us along the right path and help us achieve things we never dreamed we could

Elbereth that was so true about fire. Last week I was up about two thirty in the morning. I could not bear to stay in bed and I had left cinnamon or sticky buns to rise in the warm oven I saw they were more than ready to bake so i did. I had foolishly put them in a shallow instead of a deep pan and in my emotional fatigue I tipped the pan and a rush of bubbling butter and brown sugar fell over the fingers and palm of my left hand.The shock was so terrible and although I plunged my hand into cold water i had to scrape off the inteensely hot liquid under the cold water. I usually never take pain killers but I did and kept my hand under the cold water for about three hours, but the pain was so terrible I felt I was going onconscious. By the next night though it was feeling better and I know I should have gone to hospital but don't want to see that place at the moment more than i have too. I thought about fire, it is something to deeply respect, never play about with for disfigurement, unbearable pain , loss of nerve feeling and ;scars for life are the result. A truly fire person , in my eyes might not be great with say alcohol ,drugs or intimate relations for just like that he or she could burn into a towering inferno. I am honestly both fascinated and very wary of fire.

Hail to you all. And to all what a great thread. It's my long held thought that because of the Valar, Ulmo's association with all of the major rivers and tributaries in Arda he must then be associated in some way to Goldberry, The River Daughter. She is the daughter of a Maia under the Lordship of Ulmo and perhaps is therefore Maia herself. So the Water, the "carving" element is strong in her. Also in fire we must remember Feanor, second High King of the Eldar. His name, Feanor, literally means Spirit Of Fire in Quenya. Fea- Spirit & Anor- Fire or The Blessed Sun Arian. Gosh the Professor was wonderful wasn't he......

Well ,Brego he was fascinated with words and the way they made him feel since he looked at the names written in paint on the travelling trunks or trunk that went with mummy and John Ronald and tiny brother on the ship which took him away forever on earth from daddy. And looking out the windows across the ocean and seeing marvellous wondrous names written in Cymru on trucks that went away while it was still black in the sky. Spirit of Fire which you said was in Quenyan sounds so frightening and thrilling at once , more to me like very creation of The Beginning, unbelievably powerful and beyond my understanding.

What you say about Goldberry is remarkable, i do not know and would have to study the matter before giving even a remotely intelligent answer.

Yes Lee Lee. Your depiction of a young JRRT on a ship with his family makes me sad indeed. This early period in his life, for me, is shrouded in terrible sadness. Ship travel back then would have been horrendous, most of all his final trip back to England with his brother and sick Mother must have bee awful. I think some of this sadness seeps into the sadness of the Grey Havens and the last ships, leaving ME forever. And yes Goldberry is as much an enigma as Bombidil. She has some power, it seems, over nature, and seems wise beyond everyday knowledge. Almost like an Ancient Elf of the West but bound to the Earth not to the West that no longer exists (since The One Changed the fashion of the World). In previous threads we have discussed Golberry. It seems she maybe somehow be associated with both Ulmo and Yavanna as she seems concerned also with green things and growth and rain and season. Very interesting character indeed.

Leelee, I hope you are better now. Did your hand heal well? Because burn wounds are really painful and they heal slowly. Even if it is not very big, sometimes you see a red mark on the skin but inside it burns as hell.wink Get well!

Brego, I didn't remember the meaning of Feanor but with the translation you made, the name suits perfectly to the character. I have to admit I have to give a second read to the Silmarillion because I've forgotten lots of names... Too many things in my head...angel

Just remembered an interesting point re Feanor. After his Death, a futile, foolish and needless one indeed. His body basically burned up and turned to ash, his spirit returning to the West and to the then almost empty Halls of Mandos (where it still abides). This ending is unique to Feanor (or rightfully named Curufinwe) except for Possibly Saruman who's body turned to ash as his spirit left his body. Very interesting. I wonder if Tolkien meant something by this. Both born of goodness, both via greed, pride and fear lose their lives in violence.

I have always been a bit confused about Feanor's birth, as to whether he drained his mother, Miriel, of much of her own spirit when he was born? She was certainly drained after his birth and after a time in Lorien passed to the Halls of Mandos. I have always wondered whether this was just a difficult birth that had caused her to weaken and die, or whether Feanor had kind of "leached" her spirit while in the womb? I always felt the latter was the case, explaining why Feanor's own spirit burned so strongly.

I have always been a bit confused about Feanor's birth, as to whether he drained his mother, Miriel, of much of her own spirit when he was born? She was certainly drained after his birth and after a time in Lorien passed to the Halls of Mandos. I have always wondered whether this was just a difficult birth that had caused her to weaken and die, or whether Feanor had kind of "leached" her spirit while in the womb? I always felt the latter was the case, explaining why Feanor's own spirit burned so strongly.

I'd say both, that's how I remembered it from Silmarillion. Feanor was an intense character - in every aspect of his life, his behaviour, his appearance.

I agree with Indis, there was nothing of the babe that could ever intentionally drain the mother, but in this earth babies do that sometimes. My first live birthed son took so much from me it took almost two years to recover and he is a loyal, kind to the core and yet intensely alive person who I think I mentioned said he was the element wind. And I had a complete physical collapse after his birth because besides the very low blood he simply rarely slept for more than half an hour at a time. To this day he sleeps but little and is always writing something for professors, others right into philology. So like Feanor he was just like that in the womb and dynamic after.    As a matter of fact he told me the most amazing story- that many for generations of that country and in fact until today believe is true. He told me, and i was so worn out worrying about my daughter that I missed some facts, he was trying to take my mind off things. He said there was a King was loved dearly by a princess . She however as was the case in those countries was forced to marry another king that she could barely abide. It broke her heart. Now the amazing thing about the first king was that his family had been the legal heirs to the throne the other king was now on. And the king she loved finally journeyed there and the now Queen's husband bated the guest and told him to go ahead and look upon his bride and see her lovliness. Now the guest king was very noble and refused over and over and over. But somehow he had obtained a ring that could actually make him invisible and sometimes he used it., However the more he used it the less noble he became until one night he agreed to hide and see the queen. She saw his shadow however and after she was once more robed for bedtime she came up to him and accused him and gave him an ultimatum to do what she said or die because there he was in her bed chamber. He had to either kill the husband king she hated or die himself. He killed him and she married him and he sat now on the throne of his fathers. I was absolutely astounded by this story. So I am quite certain JRR knew of this for there are still manuscripts of those lands with the history of this within those scrolls.  Do you not think it truly amazing?

Elbereth how kind of you. You may be sure it did indeed remind me of that nether place when even pain killers did nothing.! But as a matter of fact i took very good care of the seven burns on that hand and there is not so much as a scar and troubles me not at all.

Going back to the topic of Feanor. If I remember rightly, he was very wise, and so being, he created the Silmarils. But if he was so wise, the wisest of the Noldor in his time and ever after, did he not know that unless the Silmarils (like all valuable and precious, life giving things) were in the hands of the Valar, they would cause destruction? Though it be because of the greed in their hearts. I almost think that though he was very wise in many ways, he was very unwise in the way of people's hearts and minds. Just a thought.

I wouldnt describe Feanor as wise Wen, he certainly had wisdome but his wisdome was in his hands and mind not in his life or actions. His pride and jealousy, in my mind excludes him from the Wise. The wise in Tolkien's world are always concerned with the well being of others and never with their own fortune or ability. If we look to Aule ( who possibly taught Feanor a lot of the skills he had) he gave away freely both his skill and his possessions. I would describe him as wise whereas Feaonor begrudged even his own family happiness through his jealous and childish actions. Tolkien seems to use Feanor to teach us that no matter how great our skill or power, we should never keep the fruits of our own greatness to ourselves. Feanor's actions and his mind and temper ( rare for Elves except for his Fell Sons ) exclude him and them from being described as wise.

Yes I agree wiith Brego. In fact there is a vast chasm between superior knowledge and wisdom. Like day and night Any hint of selfishness or envy or pride and wisdom is gone for it cannot dwell in the presence of these foul emotions.

Ever true Lee Lee.  Feanor truly drives me crazy, and his Sons.  For all their wisdom, power, strength and beauty, all they achieved was loss and death. 

As if Melkor's minions needed help spreading the seeds of evil throughout Middle Earth.  Thanks to this Family, Melkor's harvest was always great. No wonder he sat back and laughed at the deeds of the Noldor so often.  They seem to simply dig bigger holes for themselves to climb out of over and over until there is simply nothing left but lies and jealousy.

Tolkien once noted that the Noldor were wise but not always sagacious. Noldor meant 'the Wise' but the stem nolo- referred to...


'Wisdom' -- but not in the sense of 'sagacity, sound judgment (founded on experience and sufficient knowledge); 'Knowledge' would be nearer, or 'Philosophy' in its older applications which included Science. Nolme was thus distinct from Kurwe 'technical skill and invention' (...) the Noldor had been from the earliest times most eminent in and concerned with this kind of wisdom; nolme a department of wisdom (science etc.); Ingole Science/Philosophy as a whole (...)


JRRT, The Shibboleth of Feanor, note 4


That doesn't mean there were no Noldor who were wise in other senses. There were thousands and thousands of the Noldor -- and considering those who were eminent in the tales, we have Feanor on the one hand, and Finrod on the other, for just two examples.

Going back to the topic of Feanor. If I remember rightly, he was very wise, and so being, he created the Silmarils. 

I believe that him creating the Silmarils has more to do with his skills (his mother has exceptional talents in many crafts). But when it comes to Feanor's wisdom I agree with those who said he wasn't particularly wise (wisdom obviously isn't the same thing as knowledge). Feanor's heart  wasn't free from jealousy, pride and fierce temper. The worst thing about him is for me the fact that his ego restrained him from learning from his mistakes.

True Galin re Finrod being Wise and as you say many of thousands of others. Also a special mention of possibly the wisest of all Noldor. Galadriel of course. And Indis great regarding skill versus wisdom.

Galin, thank you for always being so gracious as to clarify things for us. Having been an editor, one of several in a city newspaper I always found research, the gathering of facts and then shuffling them into readable information, very satisfying. You are very gifted in this and are a brilliant addition to this site.

And Brego, don't you laugh, but ever since you described yourself in a couple of posts I see you as a sophisticated looking red haired gentleman who is impecibly attiried and groomed and with one hand writes the most amazing deep thinking well informed things, and with the other hand dispenses beauty in words and products and deeds, making your part of the world very upscale lovely indeed. Thank you. You are the beautiful beaches of Australia's great loss.

Thorin, Rho, Am, Loss, Vir, which element do you think Grondy was, since you knew him ever so much longer than me and the rest of us?

Thank you for your beautiful words dearest Lee Lee. So true about Galin also. Always a great informative read.

I would tend to say that I would say Grondy was associated with Earth! In my time here I never saw him put a misplace word anywhere or argue with anyone! He was steadfast as the earth is too plants, coming to PT every single day and contributing and helping where he could. Friend to all, he helped us grow in confidence when posting in PT (well, certainly me!) and always had his fair share of jokes and leg puling  in various threads! I would say he was a very down to earth guy!

my element would be fire .it's something powerful about flames .and the heat of the sun

I am fire too, there's nothing else that fits my temper. Wink Smilie

Grondy is earth, I agree with that. A rock. His dwarf avatar fitted him perfectly, it even looked like him. Smile Smilie

I am water...ever flowing..ever bubbling...mercurial...ever cannot catch me...haha!!

Am I right in saying the 3 elven rings; Galdriel's ring was the ring of water?

The ring that Cirdan gave to Gandalf was the Ring of Fire ?

The ring that Gil-galad gave to Elrond was thr ring of Air ?

Is this right?

Come to think about it, I want to add fire as a secondary element of mine. It has a lesser meaning for me, but still, fire has always been present in my life, and I enjoy of fire, whether it's candlelight, torch, campfire, it's all the same. It is an fascinating element in it's own right. Even the colors of fire are very beautiful, crimson red, some yellow, some orange.. And by the way, interesting entries, folks. Very interesting. Smile Smilie

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