Thread: A dwarvish question - Valedhelgwath? Anyone?
See: ROTK, Appendix B, TA years 1300, 1980, 1981, 1999, 2210, 2340, 2480, 2570, 2589, 2590, 2683, 2770, 2790, 2793, 2799, 2841, 2845, 2850, 2851, and 2941. As well as Appendix A, Part III entitled 'DURIN'S FOLK' and the Genological Table at the end of this section. Other than that I can't help you much.
Thanks, Grondmaster. I will check it out. If anyone has info on Dwarves in the firt few centuries of the Third Age, that would be helpful too. Regards - Chathol-inn
A lot of dwarves had removed to the Iron Hills, I believe. Many races of the dwarves had become reduced to very grim dwellings in the third age, due to the destruction of Beleriand and the Balrog in Moria.
Khazad-dum - In SA 1697, the dwarves closed the gates of Moria when Sauron overran Eregion. From that time on, "its wealth remained unravished but its people began to dwindle." In TA 1980 the dwarves unearthed the Balrog and a year later, after it had killed two kings, the dwarves fled.
Erebor - Settled in TA 1999 by Thrain's people fleeing from Moria.
Ered Mithrin - TA 1440 a small colony from Moria settled at Silverplunge nr Mt Gondmaerglom. Scatha the Worm wiped out this colony in TA 1635. Other dwarven colonies in the Grey Mountains continued to prosper for 400 yrs, and were joined by others from Erebor in TA 2002. Between TA 2550 - 2590 most of the dwarven mines were destroyed by dragons from the Withered Heath.
Iron Hills - First settled by Gror in TA 2590 after the dwarves fled from the Ered Mithrin.
Blue Mountains - After the fall of Belegost and Nogrod at the end of the FA these mines seemed to have been deserted until the period TA 2810 - 2941.
As you can see, Cathol, for the period you are covering, the dwarves are mainly hiding deep within Moria. Of the seven dwarven tribes, only the line of Durin is mentioned as far as I can see. The other six tribes migrated South and East, I believe, although I did read somewhere that there was a tribe near the Mountains around the Sea of Rhun at the beginning of the TA.
Hope this is of some help.
Erebor - Settled in TA 1999 by Thrain's people fleeing from Moria.
Ered Mithrin - TA 1440 a small colony from Moria settled at Silverplunge nr Mt Gondmaerglom. Scatha the Worm wiped out this colony in TA 1635. Other dwarven colonies in the Grey Mountains continued to prosper for 400 yrs, and were joined by others from Erebor in TA 2002. Between TA 2550 - 2590 most of the dwarven mines were destroyed by dragons from the Withered Heath.
Iron Hills - First settled by Gror in TA 2590 after the dwarves fled from the Ered Mithrin.
Blue Mountains - After the fall of Belegost and Nogrod at the end of the FA these mines seemed to have been deserted until the period TA 2810 - 2941.
As you can see, Cathol, for the period you are covering, the dwarves are mainly hiding deep within Moria. Of the seven dwarven tribes, only the line of Durin is mentioned as far as I can see. The other six tribes migrated South and East, I believe, although I did read somewhere that there was a tribe near the Mountains around the Sea of Rhun at the beginning of the TA.
Hope this is of some help.
Thanks, I knew I'd get somewhere with this site.
It sounds as is the question of early Third Age Dwarvish location is somewhat open. I would like to postulate that a colony of Dwarves was in the Iron Hills in the third century of the Third Age, when Legolas was a lad in my stories, even if they later migrated or died. Also, I would like to have a Dwarf family or so (rich of course) in the foothills of the Lonely Mountain overlooking the Village of Long Lake - not Lake Town but a predecessor village many centuries before Lake Town. Both the village and the Dwarf settlements near the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills can dissappear a couple of centuries later without doing damage to the canon. Don't you think? Regards - Chathol-linn
It sounds as is the question of early Third Age Dwarvish location is somewhat open. I would like to postulate that a colony of Dwarves was in the Iron Hills in the third century of the Third Age, when Legolas was a lad in my stories, even if they later migrated or died. Also, I would like to have a Dwarf family or so (rich of course) in the foothills of the Lonely Mountain overlooking the Village of Long Lake - not Lake Town but a predecessor village many centuries before Lake Town. Both the village and the Dwarf settlements near the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills can dissappear a couple of centuries later without doing damage to the canon. Don't you think? Regards - Chathol-linn
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Both the village and the Dwarf settlements near the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills can dissappear a couple of centuries later without doing damage to the canon. Don't you think?
Sure, and there are no visible remains due to an earthquake and mudslide that destroyed and buried these habitations.Both the village and the Dwarf settlements near the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills can dissappear a couple of centuries later without doing damage to the canon. Don't you think?
[Edited on 28/8/2002 by Grondmaster]
Yes, Grondmaster, but what about this ’
In my in-progress story of ’How Legolas Claimed Two White-handled Longknives’ the Dwarves currently hold the knives per ’Elflocks ’ How Legolas Cured His Sister of Teasing.’ The mad Dwarf Ibun took them. The Long Lake Dwarves (just one family and their servants) chase after a thief, whose name is Welsh for ’to weep’. The pursuing Orcs stumble across more juicy meat, the Elves, but mark the Long Lake Dwarves for later vengeance. After the conclusion of the Orcs’ interaction with the Elves, intensified by Legolas’s invasion of Zalog the Orc in the last segment of ’Legolas and the Ol’re Mall’, the Orcs follow the Dwarves’ backtrail to the Lonely Mountain and ’ whatever happens to the lone family, the hall remains for centuries because Theall was a good builder. I don’t know what happens to the Iron Hill Dwarves yet, but it will probably not be a weather-related incident.
As long as we don’t violate the canon, can’t we use poetic license? Best regards ’ Chathol-linn
In my in-progress story of ’How Legolas Claimed Two White-handled Longknives’ the Dwarves currently hold the knives per ’Elflocks ’ How Legolas Cured His Sister of Teasing.’ The mad Dwarf Ibun took them. The Long Lake Dwarves (just one family and their servants) chase after a thief, whose name is Welsh for ’to weep’. The pursuing Orcs stumble across more juicy meat, the Elves, but mark the Long Lake Dwarves for later vengeance. After the conclusion of the Orcs’ interaction with the Elves, intensified by Legolas’s invasion of Zalog the Orc in the last segment of ’Legolas and the Ol’re Mall’, the Orcs follow the Dwarves’ backtrail to the Lonely Mountain and ’ whatever happens to the lone family, the hall remains for centuries because Theall was a good builder. I don’t know what happens to the Iron Hill Dwarves yet, but it will probably not be a weather-related incident.
As long as we don’t violate the canon, can’t we use poetic license?
Best regards ’ Chathol-linnSounds great Chathol. Can't wait to read it.
Thanks. When I finish "Longknives" I hope you and Grondie and the other council folk will review it. If the Dwarves still don't seem plausible I will re-write.
Say, any chance of publishing "’Legolas and the Ol’re Mall’? It is in 3 parts but all are finished. It explores the Elvish phenomena of memory, prophecy and dreams.
Best tegards -Chathol-linn
Say, any chance of publishing "’Legolas and the Ol’re Mall’? It is in 3 parts but all are finished. It explores the Elvish phenomena of memory, prophecy and dreams.
Best tegards -Chathol-linn
The council is currently in the middle of organising a review committee, for postings in the Fan Writins section, which is why things have slowed down a bit.
Many people have asked about your story, Chathol, and why isn't it up yet. A few admin. hiccups regarding the Fan Writings section, is all. Once we get things ironed out, I am sure it wil be up there promptly
There are three parts to the story right? Its in three separate files? If I cant find my copy I may have to ask you for another one.
My old printer broke down, and I seem to have lost some stuff...
Many people have asked about your story, Chathol, and why isn't it up yet. A few admin. hiccups regarding the Fan Writings section, is all. Once we get things ironed out, I am sure it wil be up there promptly
There are three parts to the story right? Its in three separate files? If I cant find my copy I may have to ask you for another one.
My old printer broke down, and I seem to have lost some stuff...I have just checked, Chathol. Could you please send me parts 2 and 3?
[email] allyssa_cadwallon@hotmail.com[/email]
[email] allyssa_cadwallon@hotmail.com[/email]
Sorry to all concerned....
I've been sat on all three parts for a while now. I sent them on to Allyssa a while ago but I think the e-mail must have got lost in cyberspace (I've been having a few problems with it recently)
They should be on the way now. Let us know if you received them.
I've been sat on all three parts for a while now. I sent them on to Allyssa a while ago but I think the e-mail must have got lost in cyberspace (I've been having a few problems with it recently)
They should be on the way now. Let us know if you received them.
Cathol, Tolkien wrote a massive history, but if you start searching particular fields deeply enough, you soon begin to find limits to what was written. With the dwarves the first 19 centuries of the Third Age are very vague. I don't think you will be creating any problems for anyone by having small colonies here and there at the time period you are working on.
I find it hard to believe that no one saw a dwarf for over 2000 years. There are bound to have been other mines and colonies scattered throughout ME. If there's a mountain, there's a dwarf in my book.
I find it hard to believe that no one saw a dwarf for over 2000 years. There are bound to have been other mines and colonies scattered throughout ME. If there's a mountain, there's a dwarf in my book.
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They should be on the way now. Let us know if you received them
They should be on the way now. Let us know if you received them
Received Valedhelgwath, thanks.
Hi, Vadedhelgwath, Alyssa, Grondie and all - thanks for the notes on dwarves. I could find very little for the early Third Age.
No problem about the Ol’re Mall’ stories. Actually i'm rather glad they did not go up. I wanted to incorporate comments and I finally finished. I sent the 3 pieces to Alyssa at allyssa_cadwallon@hotmail.com. If possible I hope you will use those versions and not the earlier ones I sentto tolkienmail.com.
Your council review committee is a great idea. It is so much more meaningful to appear at a site that has standards. Best regards - Chathol-linn
No problem about the Ol’re Mall’ stories. Actually i'm rather glad they did not go up. I wanted to incorporate comments and I finally finished. I sent the 3 pieces to Alyssa at allyssa_cadwallon@hotmail.com. If possible I hope you will use those versions and not the earlier ones I sentto tolkienmail.com.
Your council review committee is a great idea. It is so much more meaningful to appear at a site that has standards. Best regards - Chathol-linn
