I began the Assignment with the following post
For the second assignment we shall be covering chapters 2-6:-
Of Aule and Yavanna
Of the Coming of Elves and the Captivity of Melkor
Of Thingol and Melian
Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor.
Chapter 2 Set prior to the awakening of the Firstborn, this first chapter deals with how Aule, in his desire for the coming of the Firstborn, created the Dwarves. This was an act done without Eru's knowledge, however, but seeing it was done of love, and sensing Aule's humility, Eru blessed the Dwarves and gave them true life. Because they had been made without his council, however, he foresaw there would always be strife between Aule's children and his own.
Discovering what Aule had done without her knowledge either, his wife Yavanna also foresaw strife between the Dwarves and her own creations, the trees. To protect her charges she summoned ancient spirits to dwell within the forests and these became the Ents. Also, with Manwe's aid, the giant eagles were created. Because Eru would have his own children awake first, however, the Dwarves, Ents and Eagles were not to awake until after the elves had stirred.
Chapter 3 deals with how Melkor built his fortresses of Utumno and Angband in Middle Earth while the Valar rested in Aman. Sensing the Firstborn would soon awake, Varda made new stars to light the sky which lay dark over Middle Earth. When the Elves awoke, these stars were the first things they saw, and forever after they revered Varda.
On his travels through Middle Earth, while hunting Melkor's monsters, Orome eventually discovered the Elves. Knowing the evil intentions Melkor held for them, capturing and turning them into Orcs, the Valar went to war with Melkor and captured him. Orome then led the Elves west on a journey to Aman.
This chapter explains how the elves became sundered at this point, and who their first Lords were.
Chapter 4 tells how Elwe, Lord of the Teleri Elves, met with Melian the Maiar as he wandered through the forest of Nan Elmoth. Falling under a spell that lasted years, his people were unable to find him, and eventually taking his brother Olwe as their lord, the Teleri departed Middle Earth without him. Elwe had been one of the three Elves to originally go to Aman, however, and having seen the light of the Two Trees, he became a great king of the elves who never crossed over the Sea.
It will be seen in later chapters how important this union between Melian and Elwe would prove to be, for it introduced Maian blood into the Elven line, and ultimately into the Line of the Kings of Numenor.
Chapter 5 tells how Ulmo, Lord of the Sea, uprooted an island on which to ferry the Elves to Aman. Because the Teleri were more numerous and had tarried on the journey west, they had become sundered from the Vanyar and the Noldor, and so remained in Middle Earth for a while beside the sea. Here they met the Maiar, Osse, and found a love for sea-lore and the music of the waves. Although they eventually arrived in Aman, they always remained by the coast and became great mariners and ship builders.
This chapter also gives insight into the early Kings and Princes of the Elves, particularly those of the Noldor, and the main differences between the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri.
Chapter 6 deals more specifically with Finwe's eldest son, Feanor. Feanor's mother, Miriel, had put much of her own spirit into Feanor, and while this caused Feanor to become powerful, it caused the death of Miriel. Finwe took a second wife, Indis of the Vanyar, and she bore him the sons Fingolfin and Finarfin. This second marriage, however, caused a rift and there was never much love between Feanor and his half brothers.
It was also during this time that after spending three ages imprisoned within the Halls of Mandos, Melkor was released. Hiding his hatred for the Elves, he feigned friendship with them, giving his council to whoever would listen. Though he had little time for the Teleri, he revealed much hidden knowledge to the Noldor, much of which they would have been better off never hearing.
Names and Places
Between pages 368-374 there are a number of family trees. The first one, The House of Finwe and the Noldorian descent of Elrond and Elros , covers many of the elves mentioned in these chapters. The other four trees will prove useful while reading the coming assignments, so be aware of them.
After the five family trees there is also a page showing the names of the various Elven groups that had become sundered from each other.
Elven Groups
Quendi - Elves
Eldar - Those Elves that took the Great Journey west from Cuivienen
Avari - The Unwilling. Those Elves who refused the Journey.
The Eldar can be divided into, the Vanyar , the Noldor and the Teleri.
All of the Vanyar and Noldor went to Aman, but the Teleri became further sundered. Some went to Aman, but one group remained in Beleriand and became the Sindar. Some had become separated earlier at the River Anduin, and these became the Nandor. Of this latter group, some eventually moved to Beleriand and became known as the Laiquendi (or the Green-elves of Ossiriand). In addition, there was a sub-group of Sindar who lived near the sea, and they became the Falathrim.
Elven Lords/Kings
Vanyar - Ingwe
Noldor - Finwe
Teleri in Aman - Olwe
Sindar - Elwe (aka, Thingol)
Falathrim - Cirdan the Shipwright
Nandor - Lenwe
Laiquendi - Denethor
Elven Princes
Sons of King Finwe
Feanor - From Finwe's marriage with Miriel
Fingolfin and Finarfin - From Finwe's marriage to Indis of the Vanyar
Sons of Feanor
Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Caranthir
Curufin (father of Celebrimbor, forger of the Rings of Power)
Amrod
Amras
Sons/Daughter of Fingolfin
Fingon (father of Gil-galad)
Turgon (Lord of Gondolin, father of Idril, the grandmother of Elrond)
Aredhel (Wife of Eol, the Dark Elf, and mother of Maeglin)
Sons/Daughter of Finarfin
Finrod Felagund
Orodreth (father of Finduilas)
Angrod
Aegnor
Galadriel
Questions for discussion.
How is the way Dwarves were created reflected in their nature?
Why is their liable to be strife between the Dwarves and the Children of Eru?
In chapter 3 it mentions that many woes befell because the Valar had summoned the Elves to Valinor. Why do you think this was?
How are the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri different to each other, and how do their natures reflect the Valar/Maiar company that they kept?
Although the group of Teleri that became the Sindar did not make it to Aman, they were considered greater than the other groups of elves that did not go. Why is this?
Why are some Noldor golden haired while the norm is black?
Why does Feanor burn with such a powerful inner spirit?
Why did the Noldor have dealings with Melkor?
Grondmaster posted
Quote:
Aul’ also wanted children, but as they were not part of Il’vatar's plan, Aul’ in secret created the Dwarves underground from the substance he found there. As they were made in secret they became secretive in their nature.
Because Aul’ didn't create the Dwarves out of malice, was this secretivness Il’vatar's doing when he gave the Dwarves their free will, a part of Aul’'s punishment/pentinence, or was that the prophesy that there would be conflict between the Dwarves and the firstborn?
Quote:
How is the way Dwarves were created reflected in their nature?
How is the way Dwarves were created reflected in their nature?
Aul’ also wanted children, but as they were not part of Il’vatar's plan, Aul’ in secret created the Dwarves underground from the substance he found there. As they were made in secret they became secretive in their nature.
Because Aul’ didn't create the Dwarves out of malice, was this secretivness Il’vatar's doing when he gave the Dwarves their free will, a part of Aul’'s punishment/pentinence, or was that the prophesy that there would be conflict between the Dwarves and the firstborn?
Orange posted
Quote:
Sindar were considered greater than other elves, because although they haven't seen the Two Trees they were 'enlightened' by Melian and Elwe. That does show that light (or wisdom) isn't assigned to Aman only.
How am I doing? I'm thoughtfully scraching my head ...
Quote:
Although the group of Teleri that became the Sindar did not make it to Aman, they were considered greater than the other groups of elves that did not go. Why is this?
Although the group of Teleri that became the Sindar did not make it to Aman, they were considered greater than the other groups of elves that did not go. Why is this?
Sindar were considered greater than other elves, because although they haven't seen the Two Trees they were 'enlightened' by Melian and Elwe. That does show that light (or wisdom) isn't assigned to Aman only.
How am I doing? I'm thoughtfully scraching my head ...
Valedhelgwath posted
Quote:
Like Grondy mentioned, the Dwarves were created in secret and so this is reflected in their nature. When Aule created them, the Valar were also at war with Melkor. Having the foresight to see they might be assailed by Melkor, Aule created them to be hardy and unyielding. Aule was impatient for the Children of Eru to arrive because he wished to teach his crafts to them. When he made the Dwarves, therefore, this thought was foremost in his mind. The Dwarves have always had a love of the Earth for this reason, mining, smelting, forging etc, like their maker.
Because the Dwarves were not part of Eru's plan, and thus not part of the third theme of music that he wove, there was liable to be discord between the Dwarves and his Children. This is also true with the creations of Yavanna, because Aule also kept his council from her. At the end of the chapter, when she tells him of the Ents who will be guarding the forests, he merely replies that the Dwarves will require wood. Trees are Yavanna's creation, and yet Aule seems to hold them in very little regard. This is also shown in the nature of the Dwarves.
Hi Orange. I'm pleased you are still with us.
Yes, the Sindar were greater than the other Moriquendi (Elves who did not see the light) because of Elwe and Melian. Elwe (Thingol) had seen the light, and Melian was Maiar. Between them, they would be able to teach their people many things that the other elves in Middle Earth at that time would not be privy to.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the other questions before we move on to the next assignment, or have any queries of their own?
Like Grondy mentioned, the Dwarves were created in secret and so this is reflected in their nature. When Aule created them, the Valar were also at war with Melkor. Having the foresight to see they might be assailed by Melkor, Aule created them to be hardy and unyielding. Aule was impatient for the Children of Eru to arrive because he wished to teach his crafts to them. When he made the Dwarves, therefore, this thought was foremost in his mind. The Dwarves have always had a love of the Earth for this reason, mining, smelting, forging etc, like their maker.
Because the Dwarves were not part of Eru's plan, and thus not part of the third theme of music that he wove, there was liable to be discord between the Dwarves and his Children. This is also true with the creations of Yavanna, because Aule also kept his council from her. At the end of the chapter, when she tells him of the Ents who will be guarding the forests, he merely replies that the Dwarves will require wood. Trees are Yavanna's creation, and yet Aule seems to hold them in very little regard. This is also shown in the nature of the Dwarves.
Hi Orange. I'm pleased you are still with us.
Yes, the Sindar were greater than the other Moriquendi (Elves who did not see the light) because of Elwe and Melian. Elwe (Thingol) had seen the light, and Melian was Maiar. Between them, they would be able to teach their people many things that the other elves in Middle Earth at that time would not be privy to.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the other questions before we move on to the next assignment, or have any queries of their own?
Samwisegamgee posted
Quote:
Sorry I am so late on this assignment! I like what Grondy said about dwarves, though. But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
I also liked what orange said about the Sindar. Also I think they were respected because they knew Middle-Earth better than the Elves from Aman because they had been there longer. For the Elves that went there from Aman, it was always a place of exile, for the Sindar it was home.
Sorry I am so late on this assignment! I like what Grondy said about dwarves, though. But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
I also liked what orange said about the Sindar. Also I think they were respected because they knew Middle-Earth better than the Elves from Aman because they had been there longer. For the Elves that went there from Aman, it was always a place of exile, for the Sindar it was home.
Tombombadillo posted
Quote:
What wall? What are Pel’ri? This confused me quite a lot.
I'm actually beginning to enjoy the read, and though it's still not that interesting, it's becoming it more and more.
Quote:
: To these the Valar had given a land and a dwelling-place. Even among the radiant flowers of the Tree-lit gardens of Valinor, they longed still at times to see the stars; and therefore a gap was made in the great walls of the Pel’ri, and there in a deep valley that ran down to the see the Eldar raised a high green hill: T’na it was called.
: To these the Valar had given a land and a dwelling-place. Even among the radiant flowers of the Tree-lit gardens of Valinor, they longed still at times to see the stars; and therefore a gap was made in the great walls of the Pel’ri, and there in a deep valley that ran down to the see the Eldar raised a high green hill: T’na it was called.
What wall? What are Pel’ri? This confused me quite a lot.
I'm actually beginning to enjoy the read, and though it's still not that interesting, it's becoming it more and more.
Plasticsquirrel posted
Quote:
Pelori are the mountain range along the edge of Aman, which hides it from the ocean (metaphorical wall) get me?
Pelori are the mountain range along the edge of Aman, which hides it from the ocean (metaphorical wall) get me?
Valedhelgwath posted
Quote:
Welcome Plastic... Now sit down and don't disturb the class.
As Plastic said, the Pelori are a chain of mountains that form the North, East and South borders of Valinor. They were built by the Valar with the intention of keeping Melkor out, and as such they were the tallest mountains in Arda, and their sides were sheer.
The only gap in this range was the Calacirya through which the Elves in Valinor could view the stars to the east, and the Telori could see the light of the Two Trees.
The three themes of the Great Music was one of the topics I raised in the First Assignment, but the question never got answered. In the first chapters you read about the Great Music of the Valar, and how from that musical theme Ea was created. The music was conducted in three parts (remember how the first two were interrupted by Melkor, and how the third theme was done by Eru alone).
Tolkien doesn't specifically say what these three themes represent in the creation of the Earth, but it is likely that the First theme represented the unbuilt forming of Ea which the Valar first entered. The second theme represents the shaping of Ea by the Valar once they had entered Ea, and the third theme, sung by Eru alone, is the Creation of the Children of Eru. The Children of Eru were the Elves and Men, not Dwarves, and thus Dwarves were not part of this music.
While on the subject, be careful not to confuse the Three Themes of the Great Music with the Second Great Music. The First Great Music created Ea and everything in it, while the Second Great Music deals with what happens after the end of Time when Ea is no more. This second Great Music involves Men, and it is the Gift of Man that they will participate in this music. Tolkien hints that Dwarves might also get to participate in this Second Music. It's theme is obviously Heaven.
I like your point, Sam, that the Sindar knew Middle Earth as home, while to the Noldor it was a place of Exile.
Welcome Plastic... Now sit down and don't disturb the class.
As Plastic said, the Pelori are a chain of mountains that form the North, East and South borders of Valinor. They were built by the Valar with the intention of keeping Melkor out, and as such they were the tallest mountains in Arda, and their sides were sheer.
The only gap in this range was the Calacirya through which the Elves in Valinor could view the stars to the east, and the Telori could see the light of the Two Trees.
Quote:
But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
The three themes of the Great Music was one of the topics I raised in the First Assignment, but the question never got answered. In the first chapters you read about the Great Music of the Valar, and how from that musical theme Ea was created. The music was conducted in three parts (remember how the first two were interrupted by Melkor, and how the third theme was done by Eru alone).
Tolkien doesn't specifically say what these three themes represent in the creation of the Earth, but it is likely that the First theme represented the unbuilt forming of Ea which the Valar first entered. The second theme represents the shaping of Ea by the Valar once they had entered Ea, and the third theme, sung by Eru alone, is the Creation of the Children of Eru. The Children of Eru were the Elves and Men, not Dwarves, and thus Dwarves were not part of this music.
While on the subject, be careful not to confuse the Three Themes of the Great Music with the Second Great Music. The First Great Music created Ea and everything in it, while the Second Great Music deals with what happens after the end of Time when Ea is no more. This second Great Music involves Men, and it is the Gift of Man that they will participate in this music. Tolkien hints that Dwarves might also get to participate in this Second Music. It's theme is obviously Heaven.
I like your point, Sam, that the Sindar knew Middle Earth as home, while to the Noldor it was a place of Exile.
Tombombadillo posted
Quote:
Ooooh! I see... It's the wall thingie that got me. But hey, it was pretty late when I started reading that chapter, and even later when I eventually finished it so don't blame me. Normally, I would have understood... Thanks
Ooooh! I see... It's the wall thingie that got me. But hey, it was pretty late when I started reading that chapter, and even later when I eventually finished it so don't blame me. Normally, I would have understood... Thanks
Samwisegamgee posted
Quote:
I get it now Val...do you think that Iluvatar knew that the dwarves were going to be, even if he didn't put them in the Third Theme? At several parts in the Sil., it states the Eru knows everything that will happen and nothing can be hidden from him. He seems angry at Aule when he finds the dwarves, but not surprised.
I get it now Val...do you think that Iluvatar knew that the dwarves were going to be, even if he didn't put them in the Third Theme? At several parts in the Sil., it states the Eru knows everything that will happen and nothing can be hidden from him. He seems angry at Aule when he finds the dwarves, but not surprised.
Valedhelgwath posted
Quote:
From what I understand of the three themes of the Great Music, Aule would have created the Dwarves during the second theme while the earth was being shaped. Eru alone took part in the third theme, melding the elements of the earlier two themes and adding parts of his own making. Only after the music had finished did the real work begin.
From this reasoning, my opinion is that Eru would have been aware of Aule's creation during the Music itself, but it would have been something he had not intended to happen, nor something that he could have stopped occuring once it had been sung. The life the Dwarves eventually had, however, was not given to them by Aule (he was not capable of doing that), but by Eru. What their eventual fate was, ie. were they tied to the fate of Ea like the Elves, or free of its constraints like Men (and part of the Second Great Music) I am unsure about.
From what I understand of the three themes of the Great Music, Aule would have created the Dwarves during the second theme while the earth was being shaped. Eru alone took part in the third theme, melding the elements of the earlier two themes and adding parts of his own making. Only after the music had finished did the real work begin.
From this reasoning, my opinion is that Eru would have been aware of Aule's creation during the Music itself, but it would have been something he had not intended to happen, nor something that he could have stopped occuring once it had been sung. The life the Dwarves eventually had, however, was not given to them by Aule (he was not capable of doing that), but by Eru. What their eventual fate was, ie. were they tied to the fate of Ea like the Elves, or free of its constraints like Men (and part of the Second Great Music) I am unsure about.
Orange posted
Quote:
Ai! Now the mystery of dwarves is realy cleared up for me!
But -
Confounding q. Maybe elves were suposed to stay in Middle Earth where they were created? Valar should have aided them on the spot, that is. But Melkor would probably cause mischief anyway.
Ai! Now the mystery of dwarves is realy cleared up for me!
But -
Quote:
In chapter 3 it mentions that many woes befell because the Valar had summoned the Elves to Valinor. Why do you think this was?
In chapter 3 it mentions that many woes befell because the Valar had summoned the Elves to Valinor. Why do you think this was?
Confounding q. Maybe elves were suposed to stay in Middle Earth where they were created? Valar should have aided them on the spot, that is. But Melkor would probably cause mischief anyway.
Valedhelgwath posted
I am a little unsure of the answer to this one myself Orange, but you are thinking along a similar line to myself.
I think the important thing to remember is that Eru created the Elves and Men without any input from the Ainur. They were given their own thoughts and capable of making their own decisions.... ie. they were free of the Ainur. The Ainur created Ea for them, but the Children were not meant to be manipulated.
Although the Elves were given the choice over whether they went to Valinor or not, they were effectively summoned. I think in this, the Valar interfered with Eru's plans and although their reasons were not selfish, it led to many woes because it had interfered with Eru's third theme.
Does anyone else have any ideas on this one?
How sad that this happened; however, I have mixed emotions about this. Without the above aforementioned, we would have had neither The Hobbit nor The Lord of the Rings, or at least not the same thrilling versions of them. 
