Thread: Rivendell / Imladris
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Anyone else see Rivendell differently to Peter Jackson?
I pictured the house with walls personally. Otherwise could get very cold in winter and not all the residents were elves. Imagine poor old Bilbo shivering in the snow, trying to light his pipe!
*snowman - just figured out how to get these to work
The movie didn't have walls either, eh? *mutter, mutter, grumble*
So how did PJ portray that delightful scene where Gandalf stuck his head through the window & said, "Then you certainly would not be going, Pippin!". T'was one of my favourite parts of the book, that was.
Don't tell me - they left it out, right? Dang!
100 % correct Golly! And I didn't picture Rivendell like that either I must say. Far too open and airy for a place that's supposed to be big and full of warm fires and hot drinks and cheery song.
I always pictured Rivendell as my grandparent's house, just kind of expanded. The movie version was very much different than what I had in my head, but I kind of went in figuring it'd be different, considering that probably not so many people had the same thoughts as me...
Not unless they'd been to your grandparents house eh?
Like has been said elsewhere, PJ's Rivendale was too fairy-elf like and not the half-elven Last Homey House from the Hobbit, especially as Frodo and company were there in December.
My vision would be like a warm ski lodge with carved oaken beams, roaring fires, good food, drinks, stories, cheer, and lots of cozy nooks for curling up with a good book or to have a private talk.
That's how I've always thought of it, too. Sad to hear it's not. I'm finding more and more reasons to not watch the movie when it shows here next week.
Then go see it and pick out the parts you do like, as well as see if you can provide any more light (or darkness if you must) on our staff and sword problems. I got caught up in the action and forgot to look for them most of the time.
Ungoliant you definitely have to go see it! It's a great movie...granted, it's different than the book, but it's still really really good. Don't let our whining get you down...and then when you see it, come back and whine with us!
I always pictured it a bit like the Camelot scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, only without the singing tap-dancing knights and stuff
I always pictured it as a large charlet ... lots high roofs... a sort like Hagrids cabin only larger and more rooms :P
I've never seen a chalet...what are they like?
Chalet? Yes we are thinking of that type of architecture.
What, loads of fret work and cuckoo clocks and stuff? I thought more gothic and impressive looking. Big halls full of blazing fires and old stone walls.
Can't see Elrond building an impressive house. He originally founded Rivendell to be a refuge for anyone who wanted to hide from Sauron and his minions.
Rivendell should be warm, friendly, cozy and safe. Like it's founder.
Like it's founder, so that's why the Movie one was poncy and annoying
I always pictured Rivendell like a warm, friendly surrounding, where you could have a rest before you start your journey again. With a big garden (that part was in the movie) but also a house with lots of big rooms and fireplaces, to keep you warm and cozy. In the film, everything was garden!
Like it's founder, so that's why the Movie one was poncy and annoying
Agree indeed. Good one!
That's what you get for using American dictionaries.
Chalet it is. I didn't quite imagine it as that though...more like a chateau. But not as gloomy.
there's kinda blueprint in the ME atlas of elrondshouse and it was deffinatly like a chalet
Type of Swiss or French house, usually pictured in the Alps or other mountains, surrounded by snow or wild flowers. Has warm glowing fire. Exudes coziness. I'm architectually impaired here. Anybody have a word picture for Chikakat? :o
Oh yeah, Think Heidi!
[Edited on 7/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
oh I get it...I have seen them, just didn't realize it was spelled 'chalet'...
It probably isn't; I tried to find 'chalet' in my five inch thick copy of Websters for my preceeding post and couldn't find it so just continued on with my misspelling, as I thought Boring's original 'charlet' was probably also wrong.
can someone pronouce 'chateau' for me? Becuase I think it's another thing that I've heard but never seen written down, and I just want to make sure I'm thinking of the right thing.
Try Sh’-toh (silent 'h'). Well, was it the right one then?
Of course, you Americans would pronounce it sh’ (as in Ch’ Guevara)-dough or something...
Chateau, it's french for castle. So just say castle! And do you mean the terribly camp and hysterically funny TV series Heidi, or the crap animated film Grondy?
well the word Chalet excist my first version af charlet is obvious false. I cou;dn't find it on the internet, however it is in me english dutch dictionary.
the dutch translation of chalet is: chalet
oh good, I was thinking of the right thing...
...though it's pronounced around here more like shaa-TOE...
and I think he meant the really good book 'Heidi', Plastic, or else the (also good) movie (not the animated one, though).
There's a good movie of Heidi? Bloody Hell!
And no, not castle Plastic. Okay, it's French for castle but castles always make me think of those huge King Arthur type things. Greyish, made of stone, gloomy-looking & cold...that kind of thing
To me a chateau would be much less imposing, and seem brighter & be filled with laughter.
maybe not a good movie by your standards, Plast...I think it acutally might be Disney...
I've visited many a French Chateau, and they're pretty castle like really. A bit poncier than our English versions but that's the french for you.
And not more Disney Chika! Is it a live action one, or the awful animated one I saw at the pictures when I was about 7?
Allyssa's questions for speculation has as much, if not more validity, than the cartographer of the map, who only mapped the areas of Rivendale that Tolkien actually wrote about. Had it been a real place, her questions could be the basis of an archeological dig; as it is only a bit of liturature, it is up to we fans to fill in the blank spots from our imaginations, if we choose to do so.
I'd call a chateau a palace. Like the one in Versailles. Amazing!
A castle is indeed sth from the middle ages, with thick grey walls, and cold floors and drafty rooms. Yuk!
I still think Rivendell should have had more... coziness and less... environmental garden stuff. Now it looked as though the elves there lived in a great big garden. They did have a house, you know, and we did want to see that! At least I did...
it was live action, Plastic...
I liked the gardens...although I pictured Rivendell's gardens even to be a little bit more homey...less tropical exotic foresty stuff, and more of like, your average little backyard garden...going along with the "Last Homely House" image again...I don't think a chateau quite fits the picture I had in mind...
I meant chalet style mountain house not a cottage, nor a chateau (which I see as a French manor house).
The most infamous Heidi movie ever was broadcast by NBC, preempting the last few minutes of a tied football game. Oh the hue and cry! And letters, oh they got letters alright. No network ever preempted the end of an overlength sports contest again. I think the NY Jets finally won the game which I had been trying to watch.
I agree with Tommy. A chateau would be more palace-like, although not as ostentatious. Yeah, I'd imagine Rivendell to be like that...something between a French manor & a palace.
The Last Homely House must have been very big. I know Tolkien didn't exactly say how many elves lived there, but with all the refugees from all over, it must have been a fair number. And that's not counting residents of other races, ie: retired rangers and the like.
Did all these people live in the one dwelling or were there some other smaller huts? Were there servant's quarters? Were there separate areas or wings for the non-elves? Did Elrond and his Family have a separate suite to themselves? I saw a game or something somewhere, where Elrond and family had the whole top floor of the House to themselves as a private retreat. Kinda liked that. They would need it I think.
I wonder if there were more than one kitchen to feed all those people? And how many chefs and servants?
And what about the laundry? Don't fancy that job!
And bathing / personal washing? Did they have a communal bathhouse or did they lug water up several floors to bathe privately?
Did they grow their own food or import it? must have grown some, so there must have been a few elven farmers around
There also must have been stables for the horses. Quite large ones too. Bill seems to have been very well looked after while he was there.
Once again I am frustrated with Tolkien's insufficient attention to detail. Never come across any more detail about Rivendell in any of Tolkien's writing. Anyone?
According to the Atlas of Middle Earth, there was just the one big house, with a forge and a stable away in the grounds somewhere. But not much else detail is given. Just the two halls, Bilbo's room, the Porch and some stairs. Oh well, guess we'll never know.
*takes applause and bows humbly* Ta Golly!
As for these servants of Elrond etc., I think there were lots of elves to do everything for him, but would you call them servants? I mean, being their mental leader, and descending from..., and being so old and stuff, there will always have been lots of younger elves there to help him with everything. But I wouldn't call them servants.
But I agree with what you say on not being so much oppressed or being slaved, Alyssa.
servants / helpers / aides, very similar terminology. I only called them servants because they may have been paid in some way - ie with money - in order for even a basic economy to operate. Money would make things a lot simpler, but I suppose given the elven wisdom, not essential.
They must have needed money to trade with outsiders presumably, especially if they needed anything from the dwarves, like metal ore and gemstones for their artwork. They may even have traded for other things like horses, fabrics and exotic foods. Would likely need money of some kind for that, unless they just bartered, which does not always work.
I think we decided that ME ran on a barter system some while back, because JRR does not mention any currency at all in the whole book.
You forgot the silver pennies Barliman Butterbur paid Merry for the stolen ponies and to Bill Ferney for Bill. However, that is the only time we could find any mention of money.
I think whenever they talked about treasure, they said something about gold coins...so it seems that maybe men used some coins and a monetary system, while most of the rest of the world went on the barter system.
Isn't paying with money not just a type of barter system?? so it could be mixed money and other stuff
oh that's true...I think you're right there, Boring
Uhuh. But I think the gold was not used as money, was it? Silver pennies, ok, but not gold as money, surely?
No matter what the coins were made of, they were still money. That is, they could be exchanged for goods and/or services. Gold only has value if people think of it as valuable and want it. It's not really very useful in itself, ie: you can't eat it or build houses out of it.
Other refenences to money in LOTR include:
-rewards of a gold piece for information
-Frodo's money that he feels will not satisfy the "rouge" strider for info and help
-The small coins thrown at Nar by Azog at the gates of Moria
-Bilbos treasure from the Lonely Mountain was possibly minted and therefore immediately spendable
There was also an exposition written by Dennis Bisenieks called "The Coinage of Gondor and The Western Lands", describing the coinage of ME in detail. It doesn't say what it's sources are though, so I don't know how reliable - or cannon - it is.
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And that just about sums it up for money. Well said too, Jehanne. Thanks