This thread is for discussion of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. No holds barred here.
NOTE: See HP Deathly Hallows NO SPOILERS if you don't want to know how it ended.
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Thread: HP Deathly Hallows w/SPOILERS
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Ahh... Slur. You didn't fail me. I finished the book yesterday. I then lent it to my boyfriend's sister. She was going out of her mind since she hadn't been able to get to the bookstore saturday. Now I miss the book, I want to look up a few things.
And how I wondered about that doe... Which part did you like best? At the moment it's the part where Slur says 'Harry, look... at... me..'. I think it stands out because I didn't understand it untill later in the book, then it hit me in the heart I had to go back and read it again. 'sniff'
And how I wondered about that doe... Which part did you like best? At the moment it's the part where Slur says 'Harry, look... at... me..'. I think it stands out because I didn't understand it untill later in the book, then it hit me in the heart I had to go back and read it again. 'sniff'
It took me two, five hour sessions to read in bed during the wee small hours of the morning the last two nights, and I'm now bushed (too pooped to pop).
Yes, I did wonder about the lovely doe, but I don't understand your word "Slur"; was that the translation of Professor Snape's name in the Norwegian edition? If so, then yes that was a the most poinient part of the story and made even more sense to all his previous savings of Harry's life in the earlier books, than mere one-up-manship with James.
A most satisfactory ending, even if we did have to lose a few favorite characters getting there, but then such is life.
A 'Well done!' to JK Rowling.
Yes, I did wonder about the lovely doe, but I don't understand your word "Slur"; was that the translation of Professor Snape's name in the Norwegian edition? If so, then yes that was a the most poinient part of the story and made even more sense to all his previous savings of Harry's life in the earlier books, than mere one-up-manship with James.
A most satisfactory ending, even if we did have to lose a few favorite characters getting there, but then such is life.
A 'Well done!' to JK Rowling.
Quote:
I don't understand your word "Slur"; was that the translation of Professor Snape's name in the Norwegian edition?
I don't understand your word "Slur"; was that the translation of Professor Snape's name in the Norwegian edition?
Indeed it is. I keep using his Norwegian name for some reason. Maybe becauase it is a word with meaning in both languages, so I don't notice the mistake as I would would with names which are clearly Norwegian.
I finished it on Sunday after spending hours of exciting reading 
I also found the ending very fine and I will as my son Ereinion (he finished it today)sure read them all again .I'm glad lots of kids/youth /adult enjoy reading these books as well as Tolkien
I also found the ending very fine and I will as my son Ereinion (he finished it today)sure read them all again .I'm glad lots of kids/youth /adult enjoy reading these books as well as Tolkien
I finished it the next day because I didn't get the book the first day... stupid ordering services... Anyways, I had always found Snape's traitorous murder of Dumbledore to be rather hard to believe, and I've never really reconciled myself with the fact that Dumbledore was actually pleading at the end... I thought maybe he had planbned on dying, but then that seemed kinda obvious, so I decided Snape really was a bad guy. But seriously, Snape is the most complicated character in HP and OI was really waiting for the mystery around him to unfold. Well, it was an okay explanation. I'm just glad he's not a bad guy and that Dumbledore didn't misplace his trust.
The other characters are disappointments, but then, they have been for the past three books, so I guess I wasn't really expecting much better. Ron and Hermione became more and more washed out, as were the Malfoys, the rest of the Weasley, and Neville and Luna. The only characters that seemed to matter in this book seemed to be Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, and Voldemort. I am satisfied with Snape, but the initial lies about Dumbledore's past seemed fairly obviously false, and it did nothing but frustrate me to find Harry disturbed by them, because it was obviously just Rowling trying to grow emotions in a blank character. The truth, when revealed by Aberforth, was anti-climactic and absolutely expected.
Harry himself did not change much from the fifth and sixth books. The only emotion in him that was convincing was anger. He seemed to feel angry at everything, his friends, his enemies, the world, everything. All other emotions were not convincing at all. His love for Ginny is not very well-written, because it just sounds fake. Rowling would be a failure at writing romance novels, because every emotion Harry feels for Ginny is put into words that look like they're copied out of some corny old romance. His acceptance of death near the end would have been convincingly written if she did not make the acceptance so sudden. It felt like one moment he was looking in the Pensieve and seeing Snape's history, all prepared to fight Voldemort and save everybody, and the next he was just content to accept death. Just like that. I mean, surely some internal struggle should've been made. Someone like Harry doesn't just accept death unless he's sure he can take Voldemort down with him. Harry is not the type to just die, content with detroying just part of Voldemort's soul, and leaving the Snake to Neville. He hates to endanger anyone, and it would've taken at least some thought for him to realize that some things he can trust to his friends.
As for Voldemort, still the same. Evil character, but no depth at all. Simply evil by birth and nature, it seems. You can tell a little from his past, but it all you can see is a troubled childhood. Nothign else hints at anything that would cause extreme evil to bud in Voldemort. He just feels like a simple target for the good guys to oppose.
Anywyas, glad that HP is finally over...
The other characters are disappointments, but then, they have been for the past three books, so I guess I wasn't really expecting much better. Ron and Hermione became more and more washed out, as were the Malfoys, the rest of the Weasley, and Neville and Luna. The only characters that seemed to matter in this book seemed to be Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, and Voldemort. I am satisfied with Snape, but the initial lies about Dumbledore's past seemed fairly obviously false, and it did nothing but frustrate me to find Harry disturbed by them, because it was obviously just Rowling trying to grow emotions in a blank character. The truth, when revealed by Aberforth, was anti-climactic and absolutely expected.
Harry himself did not change much from the fifth and sixth books. The only emotion in him that was convincing was anger. He seemed to feel angry at everything, his friends, his enemies, the world, everything. All other emotions were not convincing at all. His love for Ginny is not very well-written, because it just sounds fake. Rowling would be a failure at writing romance novels, because every emotion Harry feels for Ginny is put into words that look like they're copied out of some corny old romance. His acceptance of death near the end would have been convincingly written if she did not make the acceptance so sudden. It felt like one moment he was looking in the Pensieve and seeing Snape's history, all prepared to fight Voldemort and save everybody, and the next he was just content to accept death. Just like that. I mean, surely some internal struggle should've been made. Someone like Harry doesn't just accept death unless he's sure he can take Voldemort down with him. Harry is not the type to just die, content with detroying just part of Voldemort's soul, and leaving the Snake to Neville. He hates to endanger anyone, and it would've taken at least some thought for him to realize that some things he can trust to his friends.
As for Voldemort, still the same. Evil character, but no depth at all. Simply evil by birth and nature, it seems. You can tell a little from his past, but it all you can see is a troubled childhood. Nothign else hints at anything that would cause extreme evil to bud in Voldemort. He just feels like a simple target for the good guys to oppose.
Anywyas, glad that HP is finally over...
Serverus Snape was the murderer of Dumbeldore but I was really suprised to see that Dumbeldore planned his death ( i wouldn't.) It's so sad thet Hedwig dies 
. The ending of the book was so suprising and this books gives just as many questions as answers. It's also sad that Freddy dies yet the nerdy Percy lives. The Elder Wand wasd used to repair Harry's wand. I was suprised that Serverus was in love with Lily Evans and that Harry named Nymphadora Tonks' son was named Ted(dy). 
Also, I was surprised that Neville and Luna continued Dumbeldore's army and Neville suceeds in becoming the Herbology teacher of Hogwart's.
. The ending of the book was so suprising and this books gives just as many questions as answers. It's also sad that Freddy dies yet the nerdy Percy lives. The Elder Wand wasd used to repair Harry's wand. I was suprised that Serverus was in love with Lily Evans and that Harry named Nymphadora Tonks' son was named Ted(dy). Also, I was surprised that Neville and Luna continued Dumbeldore's army and Neville suceeds in becoming the Herbology teacher of Hogwart's.
Snape is obviously the one most worth talking about. First -- I am so glad I'm not him. But second -- does anyone else see the tendancy of Rowling's heroes - by which I mean both Harry and Snape - to lean towards an "ends justify the means" way of fighting Voldemort?
Most certainly. And rather than explaining why the followers of the theory, 'that the ends justify the means' don't comply with our family's values, and teaching what is better, they prohibit their children from reading the books and watching the movies. Children are smart enough to understand that they couldn't do what those kids did in real life and get away with it, but a little parental input would help make that a fact. I haven't explained myself very well here, but I can't spend any more time on it.
I think there are some people who let their children dive into HP without any guidance at all.... I also think that a lot of parents have let children who are too young read the story and see the movies. There are things in books 4-7 which I wouldn't want a 9 year old to be exposed to (yet I am sure that I saw many children under 9 waiting in line to get book 7 at the midnight release). And while 7-10 year olds are smart, they are relatively inexperienced in the world, and for the most part don't have critical thinking skills necessary to separate "what the author showcases as good, is good" when they are reading the story from "what is actually good in my life" (which may be quite different).
to tie it in with Snape... he has been "good while seemingly bad" ever since the first book. I'll admit I had my doubts at the end of book 6 but there is no question that Rowling paints him (and intended to paint him, double agent as he is) as brave and courageous and as having done something extremely necessary and admirable. But do the ends justify the means that Snape used (and, by extension, that Dumbledore, who apparently commissioned Snape to be a double agent, also used)? Rowling seems to think so. Does she give any indication otherwise?
to tie it in with Snape... he has been "good while seemingly bad" ever since the first book. I'll admit I had my doubts at the end of book 6 but there is no question that Rowling paints him (and intended to paint him, double agent as he is) as brave and courageous and as having done something extremely necessary and admirable. But do the ends justify the means that Snape used (and, by extension, that Dumbledore, who apparently commissioned Snape to be a double agent, also used)? Rowling seems to think so. Does she give any indication otherwise?
Not really, no.
I personally was just let down by the fact that so much of this book was spent hiding out in tents in the middle of nowhere for Harry, Ron and Hermione. There is just such a sluggish pace to the body of it; understandably, Harry himself has great difficulty in putting together ideas of where the Horcruxes might be and acting on them, and in turn, Hermione and especially Ron get very impatient with the whole process, but as said before, there is very little underlying current going on here. It almost seems that in her eagerness to finish the series, JK lost some of the interest in her characters and just sort of connected the dots, as opposed to making a truly enthralling addition and ending to her odyssey. I was disappointed by the fact that more action and plot did not take place in or around Hogwarts itself, the central point of every other book. True, the three had dropped out and since Harry was "Undesirable Number One", it was extremely hard for them to get in or out of the grounds, but it just seemed so separate from the rest of the books of the series, so alien. Hogwarts was the base for all the adventures, and though it ultimately ends there, it just seemed forced, as if JK knew that everyone expected and wanted Harry to return there somehow, so she just threw it in for good measure, almost as an afterthought. I heard JK say in an interview that Deathly Hallows felt like an extension of Half-Blood Prince to her, but I could not disagree more. There is fire, passion, electricity and intrigue in HBP, which is missing for the most part in DH. I am so glad the Snape got a reprieve in this one as I always wanted to think the best of both he and Dumbledore, and that does considerably lighten the tone, but the doubt and supposed misdeeds of Albus Dumbledore woven throughout this book really kind of squash whatever jubilant rejoicing that he welcomed his own death that there is. To me, all victory achieved in this one is overshadowed by doubt, lies, anger, failure and idleness. I know too well that in the case of real wars, this can be true and I do appreciate that JKR was trying to portray the cost of sacrifice for her cause, the war against Voldie, but I just wish that she had taken maybe a while longer to write the last book and stalled less in Harry's Horcrux progress, which would have made for a more exciting and satisfying ending. I did not like how one minute, Harry had defeated Voldemort and it was all over, then the next, it was nineteen years later and all was well, either. I think she should have left a little more room for grieving and the healing of the Wizarding World, showing what happened immediately after the war, so that the true weight of everyone's sacrifice could truly be felt, which seems to be her ultimate intention. I agree with the person above that stated that this book was rather anti-climactic and that the characters became rather hollow, but I suppose I cannot complain unless i myself attempt to write a series of novels myself. Additionally, why couldn't Dolores Umbridge have met a fitting end, she certainly deserved it! And poor, poor Dobby and Hedwig! Those two deaths actually upset me more than anything. Ah, well...I guess now it's all over...
By the way, I disagree that 9 year-olds cannot grasp the depth of loss and suffering in the last few books. My daughter is exactly nine and is in the middle of Order, and has seen all of the movies thus far. She not only takes a very mature view of the dark events surrounding Mr. Potter's adventures, but has a very unique way of offering her own explanation of things. She explained to me not that long ago, after we went to see Order together in the theatres and she was bothered by the loss of Sirius, that the bad stuff that happens in the books and movies makes the good even stronger. I thought that was a most prolific and enlightened thing for a nine-year-old to say and that it illustrated that kids can understand and interpret a lot more than we think they can. And though I do agree that some (minimal) parental guidance is needed for certain aspects of HP, I firmly believe that children need to form their own thoughts and ideas regarding negative events, such as death, violence and loss, because such things are part of life and are inevitable. If they cannot learn how to function during these times and do not have the resources inside themselves to cope, they will not be strong enough to withstand such real tragedies and will be shrinking little shadows of themselves, which could lead to depression, drug and alcohol abuse and worse. By experiencing these devastating events in a safe arena like literature, allowing themselves to feel the impact of such things at a safe distance, they learn the skills of self-reliance, critical thinking, independence and hope, which does conquer all. Not to say that I do not think that children need guidelines for what they can and cannot do/read/see, I am a huge advocate for parental guidance and parents screening things before their children are exposed to them. I also believe that if they are not exposed to enough, they will not survive in the real world and they therefore will not achieve their personal best in life. I do think that adult society, on the whole, does not realize how clearly children see and interpret things, how pure their thought processes are. I personally always trust the judgement of a child and I will not restrict my children from forming views or opinions of anything on their own.
I personally was just let down by the fact that so much of this book was spent hiding out in tents in the middle of nowhere for Harry, Ron and Hermione. There is just such a sluggish pace to the body of it; understandably, Harry himself has great difficulty in putting together ideas of where the Horcruxes might be and acting on them, and in turn, Hermione and especially Ron get very impatient with the whole process, but as said before, there is very little underlying current going on here. It almost seems that in her eagerness to finish the series, JK lost some of the interest in her characters and just sort of connected the dots, as opposed to making a truly enthralling addition and ending to her odyssey. I was disappointed by the fact that more action and plot did not take place in or around Hogwarts itself, the central point of every other book. True, the three had dropped out and since Harry was "Undesirable Number One", it was extremely hard for them to get in or out of the grounds, but it just seemed so separate from the rest of the books of the series, so alien. Hogwarts was the base for all the adventures, and though it ultimately ends there, it just seemed forced, as if JK knew that everyone expected and wanted Harry to return there somehow, so she just threw it in for good measure, almost as an afterthought. I heard JK say in an interview that Deathly Hallows felt like an extension of Half-Blood Prince to her, but I could not disagree more. There is fire, passion, electricity and intrigue in HBP, which is missing for the most part in DH. I am so glad the Snape got a reprieve in this one as I always wanted to think the best of both he and Dumbledore, and that does considerably lighten the tone, but the doubt and supposed misdeeds of Albus Dumbledore woven throughout this book really kind of squash whatever jubilant rejoicing that he welcomed his own death that there is. To me, all victory achieved in this one is overshadowed by doubt, lies, anger, failure and idleness. I know too well that in the case of real wars, this can be true and I do appreciate that JKR was trying to portray the cost of sacrifice for her cause, the war against Voldie, but I just wish that she had taken maybe a while longer to write the last book and stalled less in Harry's Horcrux progress, which would have made for a more exciting and satisfying ending. I did not like how one minute, Harry had defeated Voldemort and it was all over, then the next, it was nineteen years later and all was well, either. I think she should have left a little more room for grieving and the healing of the Wizarding World, showing what happened immediately after the war, so that the true weight of everyone's sacrifice could truly be felt, which seems to be her ultimate intention. I agree with the person above that stated that this book was rather anti-climactic and that the characters became rather hollow, but I suppose I cannot complain unless i myself attempt to write a series of novels myself. Additionally, why couldn't Dolores Umbridge have met a fitting end, she certainly deserved it! And poor, poor Dobby and Hedwig! Those two deaths actually upset me more than anything. Ah, well...I guess now it's all over...
By the way, I disagree that 9 year-olds cannot grasp the depth of loss and suffering in the last few books. My daughter is exactly nine and is in the middle of Order, and has seen all of the movies thus far. She not only takes a very mature view of the dark events surrounding Mr. Potter's adventures, but has a very unique way of offering her own explanation of things. She explained to me not that long ago, after we went to see Order together in the theatres and she was bothered by the loss of Sirius, that the bad stuff that happens in the books and movies makes the good even stronger. I thought that was a most prolific and enlightened thing for a nine-year-old to say and that it illustrated that kids can understand and interpret a lot more than we think they can. And though I do agree that some (minimal) parental guidance is needed for certain aspects of HP, I firmly believe that children need to form their own thoughts and ideas regarding negative events, such as death, violence and loss, because such things are part of life and are inevitable. If they cannot learn how to function during these times and do not have the resources inside themselves to cope, they will not be strong enough to withstand such real tragedies and will be shrinking little shadows of themselves, which could lead to depression, drug and alcohol abuse and worse. By experiencing these devastating events in a safe arena like literature, allowing themselves to feel the impact of such things at a safe distance, they learn the skills of self-reliance, critical thinking, independence and hope, which does conquer all. Not to say that I do not think that children need guidelines for what they can and cannot do/read/see, I am a huge advocate for parental guidance and parents screening things before their children are exposed to them. I also believe that if they are not exposed to enough, they will not survive in the real world and they therefore will not achieve their personal best in life. I do think that adult society, on the whole, does not realize how clearly children see and interpret things, how pure their thought processes are. I personally always trust the judgement of a child and I will not restrict my children from forming views or opinions of anything on their own.
I suppose it is really something that ought to be taken on a case by case basis, which is what parents are for -- experts on their children. Probably because "my" children are my students and not my sons and daughters, I tend to take a more general view of things. I see a lot of 9 year olds. I don't normally give their parents advice about things other than what is connected with music (the subject I teach), but I did once forewarn the parent of a 6 year old that she might want to read the end of the 4th harry potter book before she set her daughter loose on it (the mom had read #1, and had let her daughter go ahead and read #2 & #3 by herself).
I guess that's what makes me wonder about all the children I see reading HP. I have doubts about whether their parents are aware of all the deaths, etc., or if they only read the first one and assumed they would all be like that one (i.e., very little death of heroes, primary characters, people the reader is emotionally invested in, etc).
I guess that's what makes me wonder about all the children I see reading HP. I have doubts about whether their parents are aware of all the deaths, etc., or if they only read the first one and assumed they would all be like that one (i.e., very little death of heroes, primary characters, people the reader is emotionally invested in, etc).
I personally feel that Rowling did a great job, with how she ended the series. After all it was how she had planned to end it. She stayed true to her craft thereby remaining true to the story. The revelation that Snape was on the side of good all along was a stroke of masterful story-telling, she was able to keep us (maybe not us all) believing that he was leaning towards the dark side. I for one truly thought he'd shown his true colours in HBP, when he killed Dumbledore. His double agent revelation for myself was the most enjoyable piece of literature I'd read in a long time.
Also the loyalty which he felt towards Lily Potter was utterly heart warming. Although I feel it was a bit childish of him to feel hatred towards Harry because he was Jame's son. But regardless Snape remains a loyal, true, good & highly brave man.
Admittedly it would have been nice to see how Dumbledore's Army were rebelling within Hogwarts. Rowling could have given Neville Longbottom a chapter or two, for here is a character who starts off as the most unlikeliest of heroes and by the end has become a strong and resourceful individual.
I think that Rowling didn't have the main trio return to Hogwarts for a simple reason Harry, Ron & Hermione were now doing what all of us do at times leaving behind the safety of school and setting foot into the wide and sometimes wonderful world.
Hallows is a Coming of Age novel that deals with what all of us have to deal with in life: Love, loss, acceptance, betrayal, finding out who we are & what we want and the of course death.
Harry Potter is an epic fantasy tale that will enthrall & entertain generations to come. It will remain a personal favourite of mine for the rest of my life.
What makes it unique, I feel, is the vast wealth of background information Rowling accumulated for characters and the places during the creative process over the years it took her to create her secondary world
What Rowling shows in the last segment is how after war & turmoil how to rebuild life again. It's just a pity that Harry Potter had to come to an end. But like all great & good things nothing lasts forever and if she had of kept it going we would have grown weary and in the end bored.
