"Like" is a word that can seem contradictory sometimes. Like can be mingled with pity sometimes. Pity and sorrow.

Most of us certainly do admire Feanor, because he did have great talent in many things, but from the beginning Prof. Tolkien had already laid down the basis for his downfall. And as we watch him make his own undoing, the more tender-hearted will percieve a tragedy perhaps, because they'll feel sorry for Feanor. But the less tender people will feel that his downfall was his own arrogance and lust for the Silmarils. Those are faults that Tolkien created in him, and so yeah, Tolkien may have shown favour to Feanor by giving him surpassing talent, but I think he's simply using Feanor as an example of arrogant geniuses who will meet their bitter ends sometime.

And after all tragedy that befell this tragic hero, who knows what he spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when reflecting upon the calamities of his life, and the walls of the Halls of Mandos closing in on him, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?

I'm surprised he didn't just turn around and burn all the Worms alive with his glaring eyes.

I think the previous post might be considered political; though what it has to do with the price of butter in Baltimore, of coal in Newcastle, or ice in Thule I haven't the foggiest.

go tell that to all the human children whose mothers died in childbirth

Yes Brego, perhaps he did wish to show that evil can come , seemingly out of nowhere , even in the undying lands. In the Scriptures it tells of 'satan' walking faultlessly until the electrifying moment evil intent against the Creator was found in him . That is almost incomprehensible, so perhaps this fellow in some smallish way shows this. Although he had things against him from birth and perhaps the 'abandonment' of mother caused some sort of angry abberation, after all undying lands or no, a creature has his or her feelings and they can get warped.

For myself I love the Noldor . I just wish I could have seen how they did their hair.

LeeLee, elsewhere I started a thread titled 'Hairy Pottering' in order to collect some descriptions about Eldarin hair.

Not much on 'style' or length has been noted so far though!

The story of Feanor is easily one of my favorite when it comes to the Noldor. I voted for him in the most recent poll. I think he is completely misunderstood. I hate labeling his actions as "evil." I mean, certainly the slaughter of the Teleri was a pretty brutal thing, but he was bound by an oath, and I don't think oaths for the Eldar work quite the same as those of man. We can break our promises and back out because it's simply expected of us; however, back then, the idea of being a living thing was still a fairly new concept, much less that of going to a "New World." From all the actions they've heard of from the past, I'm sure they took every single little thing extremely serious. So yes, I suppose the whole Teleri incident was pretty evil, but personally, I don't feel like that justified him as being evil. Just an idiot. And even though it's technically his fault his sons partook in the following 2 kinslayings, I don't feel he should take all the blame for those.

Another thing about the house of Finwe is the names. For the most part, I think all the names from Tolkien are pretty bad ass or representative of their owner. However, even to this day, I struggle from laughing when trying to pronounce out loud both Fingolfin and Finarfin. I can't help it, those are just such awkward names...

Evil doesn't come "out of nowhere". Morgoth's intriguing may have influenced the Noldor, but not Fëanor.

Fëanor had always rejected Morgoth, the reason why Fëanor did not wish to share the Silmarils to heal the Two Trees was because he remembered Morgoth's deceiving and lies on Formenos' doorstep, and deemed the Valar to be the same.

Fëanor is an example of pride and ambition leading to someone's downfall, which was also a common theme in 19th century French literature.

I've thought this over.  I'm going to try to go off what I remember feeling about the story, mostly, though I will have to search out a few names.  I might get something mixed up, in other words, so you'll have to forgive me.

Feanor acted rashly and almost blood drunk, but at that stage in the history of the Quendi, the Noldor were still juveniles in the sense that they hadn't experienced many challenges to the examples set by the Valar. 

Though they didn't fear the dark, future Noldor woke in Middle Earth to nothing except the wonderment at discovering their world.  Much of that wonderment translated to fear for other Quendi, and I like to think of the Noldor as those who would not succumb to a flight instinct and instead would look toward building things in the dark to aid all their kind.  For the others who didn't run, such as the Vanyar who I like to imagine as boppy blondes with convertibles who never leave the 'burbs, they are simply enamored of it all.  For the Teleri I imagine the Noldor had a great deal of respect, despite the Kinslaying of the Falmari, but I'll get to that.

When Orome found them, he was their first example, and he demonstrated courage and faculty in the dark, going so far as to hunt using dogs on a horse and to carry weapons.  But nothing happened to them!  He was just ready for anything.  That's a calming example and a demonstration of the grim steadfastness they would later display.  Here I suspect the Vanyar asked for autographs, and the Teleri understood that they could respect the Valar and yet lead lives of their own: chiefly by the crafts the Noldor must by then have fully refined.

Later, they arrive at the most epic party anywhere, and they're greeted with beautiful lands, a wide array of vocations, and MAGIC!  The Valar's subtle magic being the most beautiful, it ensnared the Noldor, and 'craft' took on a new meaning.  Instead of very well-constructed and efficient thatched huts, the Noldor hewed houses gently from the rock and bent living trees to their beneficent will.  I can't imagine Aule being more happy than when he realized what the Noldor represented: respect for everything.

They so respected the Valar that they took what they saw as their greatest gifts - the Two Trees - and modeled three modest (remember where they are now, with jewels aplenty) vessels for their light (remember where they woke up).

Then it all goes bad.

I can see Feanor saying first to himself, "this is an affront to everything.  they made us and the trees, and we made our homage to both, and to them.  if nothing else, i will accept this as a test of my resolution to protect all three."

Now keeping in mind the relative juveniles I described, try to remember how you reacted when Mom and Dad first tried to stop you from being idealistic, and contrary to being juvenile, imagine having traveled such a long way and having lived such a long time already, doing nothing but faithfully drinking in every shred of knowledge and grace the Valar had to offer.

I think I'd go off half-cocked on a betrayer of those things myself.

Orome's example --->  the forging of the weapons, for preparedness

An unwillingness to accept "disloyalty" --->  the Kinslaying

Of course, I could always be wrong, and Feanor certainly blew a gasket and dressed himself like a Tolkienesque crusader somewhere in there, probably right around the Kinslaying, seeing no way back, understanding that perhaps this was what his clan had been destined to do, given all the ways in which they were prepared to deal with it.  (long sentence gasp)  He snapped.

Through the Helcaraxe, I can't imagine him feeling anything but the Curse - or natural selection - in his very bones.  Everything tells me Feanor probably knew, best of all the Quendi, his clan was absolutely made for the mission.  After all, the Vanyar and Falmari, polishing their convertibles and yachts with linen diapers, hadn't seemed up to it.

I suspect Feanor even understood the nature of his very connection with Eru, and that the Valar who tried to stop him did not.  Not that he ever really passed judgment on Eru, the Valar, the Vanyar, or the Teleri.  I think he just tried to rationalize the path he saw, and he didn't suspect anyone else had completely thought over Melkor's betrayal.  He was out to exact justice, and he was prepared to dive into hell to get it.  It's a contrary reaction to the grieving experienced by all the other players, and no one had quite gone through the entire process before.

No wisdom had therefore been imparted on the Noldor for letting go.

Almost exactly what I was trying to say earlier in the thread Ari, though I like the way you worded it much better. That's pretty much spot on with how I feel everytime I read the story of the house of Feanor. Good call. I love the description of both Valinor and the Vanyar too, as I don't think there's any doubt it was definitely a huge party city full of MAGIC 

Has anyone else picked up on the fact that Galadriels hair was the original inspiration for Feanor wanting to create the silmarils ?

That he actually asked her for a tress of her hair, but she refused him ?

It says there "unfriends" for ever...I love that..not enemies you note..but "unfriends"..that is so cool....

And then all those years later, this request is mirrored by Gimli, who also asks her for a lock of her hair; and this time the request is granted?

So these  "beats"  echo down the generations......

Ah...i love this stuff......

Interesting point, Brego.
I didn't realize Melkor and Míriel shared a while in the Halls of Mandos. More than two ages, in fact... I can't imagine their conversation themes along that time .
But I don't think Melkor's elves manipulation began there. I mean, Míriel had contact no more with the other elves, and no way to "transmit" somehow the things Melkor could have treated with her. Everything seemed to begin when he started corrupting Feanor's mind, specially. But maybe Melkor got more interested in Noldor after his "holidays" with Míriel

Yes.. I think you are right, Fingeor...Gimli wanted a tress as a keepsake..."a bond of goodwill between the Mountain and the wood"...whereas Feanor coveted Galadriel's hair with a greedy desire....which I suppose could be characterised as "lust".....it was the same with the Silmarils...he believed them to be entirely his own creation, but "he seldom now remembered the light within them was not his own..."; it had come from the light of the Two Trees....nevertheless, I do have some compassion for feanor.....