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I don't think PJ could possibly throw out the whole Eowyn and Faramir romance - it is just too perfectly hollywood. And I am sure that we will see that kiss atop the battlments of Gondor. Lucky girl, Miranda Otto, gettin to kiss Faramir (even if it is only make-believe).
I am looking forward to seeing the two of them get together.
Faramir's life: I think that when Faramir returns to Minas Tirith, he will already have been hit by the dart, and will already be sick. Denethor will hardly bother to execute his son if he is already dying. We will then proceed to the 'burning alive' scene as per the book (PJ will not be able to resist it, I think). Once Denethor is out of the way, Faramir will be the steward and will not likely have himself executed, so all will be well.
Those are my guesses, anyway.
Oh yes Alyssa - I forgot Faramir is already in Osgiliath! I keep thiking about the book... (stupid me!) - yes, having him get slashed by some Nazgul (this is my prediction), ala Frodo and have him turning slowly into one, might make Denethor's pyre a little less "insane"... then Eowyn and Merry kill the witch king...
Hey Eowyn, you think you got it rough not being able to fight? Meet Faramir... his father tried to kill him...
[Edited on 12/29/2002 by swampfaye]
Well whatever they do I hope it stays near to what happens in the book.
It's really too bad that we have to predict what will happen..... we should know, but because of the way that the movie was messed up.... we don't.
If I remember correctly, Denethor's punishment when he found out that Faramir had released the hobbits was to send him back to Osgiliath to hold the river. Either this will still happen, or events will proceed without Faramir going back to Minas Tirith, only to be told to return to Osgiliath. In this latter case, which I think is most likely, Faramir will already be dying by the time Denethor sees him, having taken a poisoned dart during the retreat.
Will they do both the battle of Pellanor fields and the battle at the black gate? I don't know, but I don't think that they can do two major battles in a three hour movie.
Thoughts?
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Will they do both the battle of Pellanor fields and the battle at the black gate? I don't know, but I don't think that they can do two major battles in a three hour movie.
I would like to think so. Surely they did not create the Black Gate set just to see an army march through it. I think we'll get to see a short battle which gets cut short when the ring gets destroyed.
I'd like to see the Battle of Bywater too, but I don't think we'll get to see the Scouring of the Shire. I think it'll be a case of Sam and Frodo looking over a hilltop, just like in the last two, and Sam saying "good to be home again, Mr Frodo."
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It's really too bad that we have to predict what will happen..... we should know, but because of the way that the movie was messed up.... we don't.
I like that, if I knew what was going to happen, why would I bother going to see the movie?
but you DO know what's going to happen - Just like you knew what was going to happen in Saving Private Ryan - and in "Tora, Tora, Tora"... I know I watch the same movies over and over, even though I know what's going to happen...
I even read Dune at least once a year since I was 14... that's more than 15 times!
I read somwhere on another site that when Gandalf and Pippin arrive in Minas Tirith they meet Faramir there and he comments on how strange it is to see a hobbit there in Minas Tirith. From the sound of it they are going to establish a relationship between Faramir and Pippin. I think that sounds kind of appropriate since Pippin names his son after him and because Pippin admires him. I hope they don't alter the relationship between Faramir and Eowyn, they are my favorite couple in LOTR
I`m sure you`ll find out CHRISTMAS 2003!!! (LOTR, TROTK)
I hope you find the answer to all your questions.
GOOD LUCK!!!
(This is a sick smilie!!)
After seeing TTT I really don't know how the ROTK will turn out...what changes plot and character-wise will take place. I loved TTT and thought some of the changes were really cool it was kind of exiting in a way to see how the changes adapt themselves to the over-all story. Hopefully the relationship between Eowyn and Faramir will be there next year...as well as the Paths Of The Dead...ever since I read the book for the first time I loved that chapter.
I don't think they'd leave out Faramir and Eowyn's relationship...PJ increased Arwen's role to play up the love-interest bits, so I don't think he'd cut out a lovey-dovey part that was already in the book. Anyway, I like Eowyn and Faramir together better than I like Aragorn and Arwen, so I'd definitely be upset if they were left out.
According to the web page from Eonline back two years ago when they were following the production, the relationship between Eowyn and Faramir hasn't been changed much from the way it is in the book and it sounded like we also get to see them get married
The romance between ’owyn and Faramir will be in for sure, according to me.
Why else would PJ focus so much on ’owyn being totally mad in love with Aragorn? When Gimli tells her Aragorn fell off the rock, u could see so much desperation... almost overacting.
And why else did we see that 'sword-fight' between Aragorn and ’owyn?
PJ just wants to make the 'regular' movie goers who didn't read the books believe that Aragorn will possible choose ’owyn or something like that -especially since Arwen leaves- but eventually Aragorn will end up with Arwen and ’owyn will end up with Faramir.
All's well that ends well!
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it sounded like we also get to see them get married
Well, I don't mind that, but I hope the rumour of PJ doing a double wedding of some sort, like Aragorn-Arwen and Faramir-Eowyn at the same time is not true. I mean, Aragorn has been crowned the king and Arwen is an elf so I think they have a higher standard than Faramir and Eowyn.
I don't think ’owyn and Faramir will marry in the movie...
In the books, they just plight their troth in Edoras. Nothing more, nothing less.
I just think that PJ will show their pseudo-romantic kiss when they're watching Sauron's downfall. That's something the movie-watchers will appreciate for sure, so PJ won't certainly exclude it.
Since story was quite messed up in TTT I don't expect anything natural...in ROTK
Just a question - how do you think they will potray Eowyn before she set out to ride with the Rohirrim? Do you think they'll show her getting into her armour and all or maybe they'll keep it as a surprise like in the book? Of course in the book we didn't really know that she has great sword skill but in the movie it's quite obvious and there's already scenes of her fighting with orc(s) -though it hasn't been shown yet- so maybe it won't be such a surprise to see her killing the Witch King.
I hope they get Meriadoc in that picture when she kills the Witchking.....or else they got crap for brains!!
In the book I assumed that Dernhelm--which I interpreted to be downvisor--was Eowyn, so I wasn't surprised at all. In the movie PJ may try to surprise us, but I think he may let us know the secret and only hide the fact from Merry, King Theoden and Eomer, which I think would be easier to pull off.
I also think some of Theoden's knights knew that Dernhelm was Eowyn for they would not have let a stranger ride with them, especially a stranger riding upon Eowyn's horse, which most of them would have recognized on sight. All she had to do was stay out of Theoden and Eomer's sight and she could pull it off with the help of one of the other Eored commanders who could assign her a spot away from the command formation, probably closer to the baggage than the vanguard.
I heard on TOR.N that the love story between Faramir and Eowyn was going to be cut short.
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I heard on TOR.N that the love story between Faramir and Eowyn was going to be cut short.
If is cut short in the theatre, then I think PJ will restore a couple minutes of it on the LotR: RotK Extended Edition DVD which will come out about 14 months from now. PJ needs to give Eowyn a modicum of happiness after her all her losses.
This is what was posted on TOR.n
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Eowyn in ROTK Spy Report. (May 30 from ToRN)
Ringer Spy Ciggy Fagash was involved in an interview with Miranda Otto and writes:
"I know Lawrence Makoare and Sala Baker are both supposed to have been doing work as the Witch King in the final battle with Eowyn - and she mentioned they'd be reshooting a lot of it, so that could explain at least some of Baker's work [Sala's presence at reshoots have been mentioned in recent news - T] "She also mentioned not holding out too much hope that much of the Houses Of The Healing would appear. Apparently the romance between Eowyn and Faramir, although definitely present, has been down-played somewhat. She seemed disappointed but said, 'well something has to make way - there's a lot of story to cover in the last film.'"
Sounds like their romance will be very brief.
Well, at least it's in there.
Maybe PJ decided to focus on Gollum's story based on his immense popularity - PJ did say that this is going to be the most 'emotional' installment. Perhaps he will emphasise more on the sadness of the story rather than the happy ending.
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Perhaps he will emphasize more on the sadness of the story rather than the happy ending.
Yes, he is going to emphasize the sadness by showing the Elves going into the West and how in order to win safety and happiness for the many, the few will have to give this up. And the book at "The End," ends very sadly; we don't find any joy until we read Appendices A and B and see that life went on and only Arwen's story had a very sad ending after the Major Ringbearers made their journey. Even Sam's journey to Valinor I consider joyous as he had had a long good life after his return to Hobbiton and he was again going to be with Frodo.
And it seemed in the end some of the fellowship were together again - assuming that they'll meet after sailing to the West - Frodo, Gandalf, Sam, Legolas and Gimli all went to the Grey Havens. Only Boromir, Aragorn, Merry and Pippin succumbed to the mortal life, but not before giving their best to M-E. (In Boromir's case it's arguable)
Frodo, Sam and Gimli will succumb to mortal life as well. Aman does not give anyone immortality who does not already have it (ie Ainur and Eldar)
That's true Lasgalen, but we don't even know if Gimli ever made it to Valinor, just because Legolamb (sorry, Legolas) let Gimli sail with him. Legolas didn't have the postAuthorIDity to admit Gimli to the promised land. Though, for services rendered, Manw’ or one of the other Valar may well have presented Gimli with a lifetime visa, the same as was undoubtedly offered Frodo and Sam, through the auspices of Manw’ through Gandalf.
Or were the Elves actually able to issue their non-elvish friends into Valinor as long as it was a one-way pass? I thought only the Valar could do that.
Nah....I think you are right there Grondy......I believe that it might’ve been so that when Gimli was too sail with Legolas to Aman, it became known to the Valar and perhaps Aul’ asked Manw’ if Gimli could come over(as an exception). And about the ringbearers I believe it was that Manw’ knew of their suffering and that they would not find happiness and joy in M-E as long as they lived because a big piece of them was destroyed......and because they so effieciently destroyed Saurons reign....they were let in....but if they were let to Valinor I don’t know....because they were sailing with Galadriel and I was under the impression that she was not allowed to return to Aman, but only to Tol Eress’a....or what?
So if Gollum hadn't been killed by the fires of Mount Doom, he would have sailed to Valinor too, together with Frodo and Bilbo. That would be something!
Maybe he could be healed, but he seems to be hurt by elven things (like Sams rope) so being in a place where everything was elfmade probably wouldn't be to much fun.
I seem to recall from somewhere that Galadriel made a plea for Gimli to be allowed at least as far as Tol Eress’a. Can't remember now where I heard or read that.
I guess you read that in the appendices of LoTr, in the chapter bout the dwarves. in the end of that part, it's mentioned that gimlli possibly went to valinor or somethin to see galadriel agen.
Yeah but did they come to Valinor? Or just Tol Eress’a? SInce the ban of the Noldor was on Galadriel too she couldn’t come back to Valinor.....unless she died....but only to Tol Eress’a....isn’t this correct?? But Frodo and Bilbo.....hmmm....wouldn’t Mandos be a little ****** if they got to stay there? I mean....when E’rendil came, Namo wasn’t so happy
Watch your language Aule. This is a family friendly site.
[Edited on 12/9/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
I actually think the Noldor could have returned to Aman had the repented and asked forgivness; but they were too stiff-necked that it was beyond their natures to do so. Now if you remember, Galadriel didn't take the oath, she was under the ban because she had left Aman. Most importantly, she earned her return ticket for her part in thwarting Sauron in his plot to take over the rule of Middle-earth and her help in bringing about his eventual downfall.
Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, and Gimli were all mortal and after any of their mental anguish had been relieved by being in that fair land, would have eventually died there. This would have been soonest for Bilbo as he was eldest. I believe Frodo would have lingered until Sam was ready and Gimli was 262 years old when he sailed into the West with Legolas, this seems to be an above average lifespan fo the Dwarves (judging only from the geneology table at thew end of LotR Appendix A) so I expect Legolas cared for Gimli in his old age until his death, either aboard ship, on Tol Eressea, or in Valinor.
I think you are right, Grondy.
I also think that we've gone off the original path of the topic Faramir and Eowyn.
I think they made a nice couple in the book and will do so again in the movie. Sorry, I should have added that at the end of my last post.
Eowyn will be much happier with Faramir than she would have been with Aragorn. Eowyn truly falls in love with Faramir. I believe that she did not truly love Aragorn, but only had deep admiration for him that she interpreted as love. Not to mention that the role of Queen of Gondor may have been too restrictive for such a free spirit.
I don’t think PJ will give them the attention they actually deserve.....he’ll be too busy with his freakin Aragorn-Arwen-hollywood-marriage......*spits at the PJ’s way*
P.S. Sorry Val...didn’t know that that word was a foul word.....I apologize!
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I think they made a nice couple in the book and will do so again in the movie.
- Grondmaster
Hmmmm.... Aule wins.
Maybe on the extended DVD....
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I think they made a nice couple in the book and will do so again in the movie.
Match ain't decided yet : maybe they will in the EE or the special EE. Not that i care, anyway.
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Maybe on the extended DVD....
Well the Houses of Healing is definitely going to be in the SEE DVD, and we will at least get to see Faramir and Eowyn fall in love, that has been officially confirmed.
Also, it’s been widely rumored that the wedding between Faramir and Eowyn was filmed, but I don’t know if this will make the SEE DVD or not, I guess we’ll find out sooner or later.
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Also, it’s been widely rumored that the wedding between Faramir and Eowyn was filmed, but I don’t know if this will make the SEE DVD or not, I guess we’ll find out sooner or later.
I'd rather see the wedding of Arwen and Aragorn takes place like in the book. And I would much prefer to see the funeral of Theoden than Eowyn and Faramir's wedding because it was during Theoden's funeral that Eomer announced that Faramir and Eowyn are bethrothed, so they haven't married yet.
The part in the movie when Faramir and Eoywen are standing next to each other at the end... Well If I hadent read the books before I saw ROTK, I wouldn't have guessed that they were in love. I wished that they would have portrayed their love a bit more...
Quote:The part in the movie when Faramir and Eoywen are standing next to each other at the end... Well If I hadent read the books before I saw ROTK, I wouldn't have guessed that they were in love. I wished that they would have portrayed their love a bit more...
We expect the scenes in the Houses of Healing will be included on the SEE DVD. Both the healing hands of the king and the blooming relationship between ’owyn and Faramir.
This is on the PT Frontpage!
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David Wenham, who played Faramir in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, told SCI FI Wire that the upcoming special extended-edition DVD of The Return of the King will feature deleted scenes that further develop his character.
"It sort of shows that Faramir is probably the strongest member of the family," he said in an interview. "[There's] a scene with Denethor and Faramir where they talk about the ring of power, and Faramir is accused by his father of not being up to it by not actually taking the ring. And Faramir says, 'You don't know the power of this ring, and if Boromir had taken it, you wouldn't have known your son.'"
In another scene, which takes place in the houses of healing, the love story between Faramir and Eowyn (Miranda Otto) is further developed.
"The other scene that I think is wonderful to have in the extended cut is the houses of healing," Wenham said. "To give the audience [the chance] to see Eowyn and Faramir come together. ... You sort of get the result. So it was implicit, the fact that something had happened since the last time you saw these two characters. So the audience gets the opportunity to see exactly what happened in the houses of healing."
Thank goodness! But doesn't it make you feel the cinema audiences have been somewhat cheated by not having these scenes in the film?
Absolutely!
For the outrageous price of an adult admission, and for the(expected) length of the films, the poor audience really
deserves a break-what, you're supposed to spend twenty dollars(about eleven and 1/2 pounds, isn't it?) after you already paid your initial admission fee just to see the scenes that the Almighty PJ decided were not as worthy as the ones he dreamed up? Ridiculous! How can we, as dedicated fans, support this blatant attempt to soil the story so beautifully created by Tolkien himself? Not that I am bitter about it-it is only one(strange)person's version of it, and not that I haven't played into it by spending the money on seeing both versions of the films, but it is irritating to have to pay through the nose just to see a dearly-loved story massacred!
Sorry, perhaps I should not get going on these type of subjects-it makes me CRAZY.
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Sorry, perhaps I should not get going on these type of subjects-it makes me CRAZY.
That's all right Laurelindhe ilmarin, you are in good company. The only redeeming grace for PJ, is that he did bring his film to life. Without his vision, we probably would have had to wait another ten, twenty years for it to happen, and that future film may also have left out favorite scenes due to time restraints and in the best (?) interest of telling the story to the theatre audiance.
I also saw the films in the theatres and bought all the theatre version DVDs, which I give to my grandson as soon as the Extended Editions are in my collection. I refuse to participate in any marathon theatre events nor will I go to the theatre to view the extended edition of
LOTR: Return of the King. At least that is my current unalterable intention; tomorrow is another day.
To keep to topic, though, I am really disappointed about the reduction of Eowyn and Faramir's romance/wedding in the films. It seems to me as though PJ may have not read the book(s)entirely well enough. As reference to this, I ask you to remember in FOTR when PJ made up that scene where Merry and Pippin come crashing through Farmer Maggots' corn(which, of course, didn't happen) into Sam and Frodo, and they go tumbling down the cliff, only to take "A Shortcut To Mushrooms"? Doesn't this sound familiar? It sounds to me as though he only read through the titles of the chapters at some points and dreamed the rest up. Of course, I'm probably wrong.
It seems to me that maybe he did not thoroughly read the end of ROTK especially, for that, to me, seems the most errored. The downplay of E&F's relationship only supports my theory...
But, Grondy, as you say, without his version, we would not have been given the gift of sight to the greatest story of all time!
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