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[quote="pettytyrant101":z7b15dsv]Like I said medical reasons for obesity are not the main factor- they are a small percentage of those who are overweight. A sedentary lifestyle and bad food is much more common a reason.[/quote:z7b15dsv] How could you possibly know the reasons different people lead sedentary lifestyles or eat unhealthy food? Some people probably just don't care, but it seems to me (and perhaps this is my own bias in understanding) that you're painting all overweight people with the same brush, which seems unfair to me. I'm also unconvinced that medical reasons are a cause in a minority of cases.
[quote="Odo Banks":admln42d]I'm amazed: are we having a Big Serious Thread-like discussion on the Howdy thread!? <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> Who would have thought it? :ugeek: [/quote:admln42d] I must confess that I found myself thinking I was in the Big Bad Serious thread when writing an earlier post. 8-)
Let's hope seriousness on the Howdy thread does not become an addiction! :o I agree with you Mr Tyrant is being a little stridently (unfairly?) on this subject, though crabbitiness is his mojo, so we should expect nmothing else. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> I take solace in the knowledge that he seems to be taking a slightly softer approach as the discussion proceeds - he even suggested I take tea - that irascible duckie scoffer! Tea! :shock:
"How could you possibly know the reasons different people lead sedentary lifestyles or eat unhealthy food?" -Eldo I don't. People do though, why they don't want to get off their backsides and go do something I've no idea, but people are more obese now than ever. And yes I am generalizing, when talking about such a large number of fatties you have to. I wasn't planning to invite them all over individually to ask (apart from anything else can you imagine the biscuit bill :shock: ) History does not seem to record the sort of obesity levels we currently see and the main factors in modern life compared to the past is an abundance of not very healthy foodstuffs and people sitting in cars/buses to go anywhere and then sitting in offices/colleges etc when they arrive. So I do think obesity is a by-product of modern life and is therefore very unlikely to be largely for medical reasons Eldo. There are medical reasons, particularly if you suffer from some forms of diabetes as you pointed out or simply have problems with mobility which can be due to all sorts of reasons including just age, but that's not who I am talking about. I'm talking about the sort of people who started me off on this rant n the first place- those in shopping queues the western world over complaining about their weight whilst buying junk food- and as I said before I have no sympathy left over for them. But medical reasons do make a handy excuse if you are overweight and simply are too lazy to do something about it. Scotland is now one of the most obese countries in Europe, there are definitely many more fat people (particularly under 30) than then there was when I was in my teens and twenties- we had a fat kid in class- now fat kids are the norm in class. I don't for one minute believe some unknown fatty disease has suddenly sprung up in the younger population Eldo- the majority are just lazy and eat the wrong stuff. Tea Odo is the drink of the Gods and a perfect cure to an evening of Duckie quaffing. (traditionally the Scottish remedy is Irn Bru- Scotland's other national drink. But I can't in all sincerity recommend it to someone watching their weight as its largely made of sugar and glucose).
[quote="pettytyrant101":3d6enrb4]So I do think obesity is a by-product of modern life and is therefore very unlikely to be largely for medical reasons Eldo.[/quote:3d6enrb4] You act like the two are mutually exclusive. Did it occur to you that perhaps these qualities of modern life simply trigger medical issues that wasn't an issue in past times when people had much less food and it was worse? [quote:3d6enrb4]But medical reasons do make a handy excuse if you are overweight and simply are too lazy to do something about it.[/quote:3d6enrb4] I'm sure some people use it as an excuse not to do anything, but there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
That depends if its a fat baby or not. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
I blame the weather --- in Scotland at least. Cold and wet, on the good days, that's what I heard (I may have just dreamed it). So no wonder children stay indoors, eating taters three times and day, and quaffing (and scoffing) crisps and soft drinks (sodas) to stave off boredom. Here to help. :ugeek:
I wish I could say Odo you were far from the truth. On both the weather and the lifestyle. But you're sadly very close to it. And yes Eldo society does play its part on obesity. My little brother is a mere teenager but we grew up in the same town. Yet when I grew up there was cubs, scouts, youth clubs and a choice of football pitches to go for a kick-about as well as the street for a quick game of headers. For my brother there is no longer any cubs, scouts or youth club and there is one football pitch you have to book and pay for and if they play in the street (apart from the hazards of getting run over) they get arrested. On top of that is the distracting of tv, pc's, game consoles and the like. It's on average no more than a maximum of twenty minutes walk from anywhere in this town to countryside. And I often avail myself of a walk in the hills because I always have, ever since I was a kid and played there. But its rare, very rare to meet someone else. And when you do, nine times out of ten its a dog walker. So yes there are many contributing factors to obesity, but aside from the medical it really comes down to how people live. Which in Scotland, by and large, is on a bad diet and little exercise (and I don't see much evidence its any different in America). And no matter the distractions that's still a choice. People here could choose to go for walks in what is frankly a stunningly beautiful bit of the world. If you can find two hours of your life to watch x-factor* every week you can find the time to go for a walk. I have no sympathy with overweight people who don't. They could if they wanted to. *x-factor. I don't believe you have the pleasure of this in the US, yet. It's Simon Cowells' Saturday night spectacle of humiliations, sob stories, melodrama and cash generation dressed up as a singing contest and stretched over two hours of television (not including spin off shows like Xtrafactor) and is mind bogglingly popular. If you thought America's Got Talent was killing your tv and filling your airwaves with manufactured drivel then you ain't seen nothing yet. Be warned its coming your way.
Petty, you act like you think most people have the time, positive emotional outlook, or energy to get their needed exercise in their busy modern lives when they have to work more than one job to stay afloat, and look after their families. Same goes for eating properly, in this depressing Capitalist environment, and under the bombardment of advertising, and greater costs of healthy and organic foods, people's food choices naturally lead to "comfort foods" and less than healthy choices. Sure, Blame the Victim all you like, after all we do bear some responsibility for our choices; but they are choices made in an environment that increasingly minimizes our ability to make the right choices. [b:1ivb933c]GB[/b:1ivb933c]
[quote="pettytyrant101":3buhg98e]And no matter the distractions that's still a choice. People here could choose to go for walks in what is frankly a stunningly beautiful bit of the world. If you can find two hours of your life to watch x-factor* every week you can find the time to go for a walk. I have no sympathy with overweight people who don't. They could if they wanted to.[/quote:3buhg98e] Based on your posts here and some of the pictures you and Noom have posted in other threads you seem to live in a very nice place, but some people live in places where they can't go for a walk without a significant risk of being [i:3buhg98e]mugged[/i:3buhg98e] or [i:3buhg98e]murdered[/i:3buhg98e]. Some people have to work multiple jobs to support their families and at the end of the day simply don't have the time to go out and exercise or take the time to prepare a healthy meal. You can talk till the cows come home about all the opportunities the fat people you encounter have, but it reeks of upper/middle-class bias to think that all or even most overweight people have those same opportunities.
Thing is I don't see myself as a victim and I don't see why other people should see themselves as one either. If you believe you are just a leaf being blown in the wind then you will be a leaf blown in the wind. I'm not claiming its easy only that its possible. But that the possibility will never arise unless first a person makes the decision to do something and then acts on it. The problem to some degree is that we have a society where few people even have the desire to act. Your defence GB is too defeatist for me. Bugger the system, screw societies constraints and to hell with how hard they make it for you to achieve something- do it to spite the buggers if nothing else. p.s good food doesn't have to be expensive- porridge is dirt cheap, rice and pasta is pretty cheap, and potatoes, beans are always good for protein or monkey nuts for a change. Milk, bread- all reasonably cheap, a few cups of tea and the odd Duckie and it might not be too interesting but you'll live (and its non fattening stuff) and shed the pounds. That's the Tyrant dietplan. P.P.S. As you can see from the above dietplan Eldo I am very, very far from being middle classed. Lucky in that I live somewhere nice that is true. Fortunately the sort who mug and harass passersby are far to lazy to go up hills to do it, but like in most towns in the UK I would think long and hard before going anywhere near the town centre at weekends. In that sense nowhere is safe really anymore Eldo- there's just degrees of unpleasantness.
This is reminding me of a conversation I had with a British friend of mine a few days ago about food prices. In the U.S. (at least the parts that I've been to), food like you mention even in a supermarket is far, far more expensive than food from a McDonald's or similar unhealthy place. Unhealthy food also tends to be more convenient for busy people.
Well the porridge I buy, which is basically a small sack costs ’2.00 (very roughly I think about $3.60) and would easily see you through at least a month or so of breakfasts. Bags of pasta you can pick up as cheap as ’0.60 but if you want better quality your between ’1-’3. How does that compare with US prices for similar?
I honestly can't say off the top of my head for most items, the only one that comes to mind is a gallon of milk being about $4. I do know that for my own family of four we regularly spend $400-$500 a month on food, not counting times we eat out (that might be more than usual though since my mother likes to shop 'organic'). To eat on the campus of my university I pay upwards of $20 a day. I can try to remember to look next time I'm in a supermarket if you really care. :lol:
I know times are tough but does every American not walk because of the fear of muggings? :? Is America that Lawless? As to food - yes, Maccas is cheapish - but wholesome fresh food (whether organic or chemical), wisely sourced, is cheaper. Mr Tyrant is on the money there. You're right about the "psychological" factors though, GB - they're not to be sniffed at (and I think Mr Tyrant does!) It is hard for folk nowadays to avoid unhealthy living habits. At the heart of the problem it's not necessarily "poverty" it's "affluence." My Mother ran a budget for two adults and eleven kids, while Dad worked two jobs. She had be careful with limited funds. I'm Commission born and bred. I had few luxuries growing up, but I did have a roof over my head, and wholesome unspectacular food to eat, and never knew poverty. I'm reminded of that conversation about the tenement that was pulled down which Mr Tyrant mentioned. Community was better when we had less cash to splash. Also, I played in the streets (and did not get arrested). ---- Btw my mother's stews were better tasting than the fancy stuff me or my Missus cook nowadays - though don't tell Primadonna I said that! Cheap food it was, but good food - none of your Roman (American?) rubbish, GB. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
"I can try to remember to look next time I'm in a supermarket if you really care." -Eldo Care would be a bit strong, curious yes. If you happen to notice when your next in a supermarket it would be interesting to see if your contention that even basic healthy foodstuffs such as those I listed are still to expensive for the average US wallet. I suspect they are relatively cheap but people choose not to buy them in favour of convenience foods and things they've seen advertised. But you can't go wrong living on good plain sensible hobbit food Eldo.
eye luv fud doen get fat corss eye laybore dun za minze ya no! :ugeek:
41 years old ---- and going down. 87.9 kilos! Was in excess of 93 just over three weeks ago (I was 51 years old back then). <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
82.2 kilos. Thirty five point two years old... <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> (Primadonna thinks I'm getting slim, trim and terrific. Funny to say, she then told me that she' s invited her friend Bella Buttocks over for dinner next Wednesday night. For [i:5xo9ljmw]"drinks"[/i:5xo9ljmw]she said. To [i:5xo9ljmw]"celebrate," [/i:5xo9ljmw] she added. They're planning a big surprise for me. [i:5xo9ljmw]"It'll be something you males always dream of,"[/i:5xo9ljmw] she told me (blushing). Have no idea what she means. But that's the lasses for you! :roll: )
5,7 kilos in a month, not bad! And good luck with Ms Buttocks :lol:
4Bella is a comely friendly young lady-hobbit, though somewhat forward at times. She's a scion of the Took clan, so it's no wonder. Not much of a cook though, so I don't think that the [i:26ns47h0]surprise [/i:26ns47h0]will have anything to do with seed cake. Funny thing to say, but when I said to Primmy that I hoped the [i:26ns47h0]surprise[/i:26ns47h0] might involve a nice freshly baked seed cake, she giggled and asked me if I liked muffins. She knows full well I do, but when I scoffingly reminded her of the fact, she just giggled all the more! Alas! Who of us can read the feminine mind? But bless their simplicity, I say. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> For all that, I don't expect muffins will be involved -- which is sad, because I am quite fond of the occasinal muffin or two.
There are few pleasures in life equal to diving into a tasty muffin! I'd be careful though Odo, sounds to me like there's a chance of dancing and frivolousness! Bella sounds the sort to break into the Springle-ring after a duckie or two. And we know how vigorous that can be on a poor hobbits heart. :shock:
Now, this isn't very respectable, is it? :lol:
Oh no, I'm sure it will be all very respectable, Ringdrotten. Primmy met Bella at the Illuvataran School of the Feminine Mystery (in Needlehole), where the Rituals are full of love and cherishment (or so Primmy tells me). They have all sorts of Secret Intiations and Activities which bring the lady parishioners into a intense state of pleasure (spiritual I presume), initimateness ("girl-gossip" I assume) and extreme feminine closeness --- to a point, Primmy often says, where an untrained eye may have extreme difficulty just knowing where one Lady begins and another ends (a metaphysical state of extreme connectedness, I imagine). Yes, it all sounds quite esoteric, but I know it brings my sweet Primmy great joy. She often comes home flushed and full of vitality, though a little sweaty as well, for the rites are quite energetic at times, even if there also is [i:1diodcfp]gentleness[/i:1diodcfp], [i:1diodcfp]softness[/i:1diodcfp] and [i:1diodcfp]sweetness[/i:1diodcfp] and the use of a [i:1diodcfp]slow-hand [/i:1diodcfp] as well (whatever that means). Ahh! Sometimes I have expressed the desire to join such a respectable Spiritual school, but alas, I'm a lad and not allowed. <img src='/images/smileys/sad.gif' border='0' alt='Sad Smilie' /> But on a brighter note, Primmy tells me that she and Bella plan to bring me as close to being a Lady of the Illuvataran Feminine Mystery as possible. I said, a little sadly, "[i:1diodcfp]Close[/i:1diodcfp] does not sound quite close enough, Sweety Hobbit." Primmy smiled demurely and answered, "You might be surprised." So I trust [i:1diodcfp]close [/i:1diodcfp] might well end up being quite close enough, for I'm sure Primmy won't let me down. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> As to [i:1diodcfp]duckie[/i:1diodcfp], Mr Tyrant, Primmy says duckie will be the last thing required, "There are far more stimulating things than duckie in this Shire, Pumpkin," she told me. Opaque as usual, but I must admit the mystery is quite tantalizing.
Dare I ask how your 'surprise' went Odo? :? I am somewhat intrigued as I know that a sensible, respected (and above all wholesome) hobbit such as yourself must (like me) be puzzled as to what sort of 'surprise' could be of any good if it doesn't involve seedcakes or duckie?
No... nothing to report... nothing at all.... :oops:
You know, I'm not so sure, Uncle Odo. You have been awfully reticent about it all - and very bright eyed lately!
[i:346cei3h]"Bright eyes and respect go toe to toe, That's what every child needs to know!"[/i:346cei3h] That's an old Rushock Bog nursery rhyme, as you'll be aware, Mirabella. :x Oh yes, and I suspect my bright eyes are also due to my current health plan: healthy eating, weight-loss, and plenty of very pleasant exercise with Primmy and Bella... [i:346cei3h]walking[/i:346cei3h], that is.
'hic' '[i:g682wvut]JIngle Bells! Jingle Bells! Santa drank all the buckie!' hic Rudoplhs pissed and the elves dont think its funny![/i:g682wvut]' hic. 'Merry Crimble time Needlebog, sorry, hole, Needle hole hobbits, hic, would you be kind enough to direct me and this large drunken and above all noisy pipe band to the Banks residence? hic' '[i:g682wvut]And the hobbits from the NHPD choir were singing Galbladder Bay And the bells were ringing out for christmas day.[/i:g682wvut]' hic 'Hey! Odo you upside down hobbit, where are you? hic. I have a bag pipe filled with buckie for you. hic. But if you don't mind I might need to crawl into your hole come morning. :? I'm sure, hic, Mirabe, hic, Mirraaa, hic, Bella won't mind' Hic. Bluuurrrghhh!!!
[i:1b14arbi]You’re a bum you’re a punk You’re an old slut on junk[/i:1b14arbi] "hic I love a good christmas song brings a tear to the eye. hic. Odo! Is this your hole? Seems dark enough. Oh sorry madam! Didn't mean to- hic- disturb you. Have a buckie. Oh you appear to be standing under the mistletoe. What mistletoe? Why this mistletoe! Give us a kiss! hic! And whose this? Ahh the Master of the house. Big for a hobbit isn't he? hic! What?! Well sir she was under the mistletoe- what do you mean now you're under the mistletoe! Oh no! :shock: Odo!!!" [i:1b14arbi]You scumbag you maggot You cheap lousy faggot Happy christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last.[/i:1b14arbi]
Cheers, Petty <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
(((Oh dear! What terrible rumours in the neighbourhood! :oops: Surely Mr Tyrant isn't really down a disrespectable hole with the ends of worms and an oozy smell! :shock: )))
Hic! Cheers upside down hobbitfolks fer a gallas time in yer wee smelly hole. Bless yi Maw and Paw Underbucket, sorry about the wee bit confusion, hic, I didnae ken she wis a cousin, no e'en a second wan twice removed- although it explains a lot aboot her. hic! C'uld I just take this! Come oen, I cannae gae first footing the Bankses withoot a wee lump o' yon coal- its no respectable an' those Bankses are big oen respectable. That's why I brought ma especially heavily kilt efter a' that fuss last time when I wis dancing in the old wan wi yon elf lass. hic Wan lump! Come oen she's got at least twa stuffed doon her jumper a can see 'em frae here. Fine, I'll git same coal elsewhere. An' yer hole stinks o', o'...hole!! hic! Wit dae yi mean yi cannae unerstand me? Wits wrang wi yer ears? They full o' clootie dumpling? Its no ma fault ya Aussie trumpet, its the Hogmanay. Closer it draws the mair and mair scots we scotsdale hobbits git. So shove yersel up yon chimney I'll gie yi pelters so a will yi sassanach bampot. Awa wi yi. Right, we bit o' sommit tae warm the innards! Ahh better. [i:1k70ogsr]'Oen the third day o' Christmas ma true luve gie tae me, three buckie pouring, twa scottie dugs pishin', an' a manky great bird called Heather in a fir tree.'[/i:1k70ogsr] Right maebe this next hole will be Odo's pad. Season greetings to all who dwell within. Coming through ready or no. Got ony coal pal?
Damn buckie
Is it just me, or have a whole host of folk of a Disreputable [i:2gvxtl5m]sort[/i:2gvxtl5m]** overtaken my Thread? :x **My apologies for the use of the said four-letter-word, but I am disgruntled to say the least! :x :x :x
My apologies, Odo, but in my defence I'd like to say that I'm having a hard time trying to remember writing that last post :lol:
Ahh buckie induced memory loss- its actually a boon, if you could remember you'd die of embaressment!
Hi guys, still up to your hi jinks I see. My goodness, Petty - I hope you're not drinking too much of that [i:18vixuhu]buckie[/i:18vixuhu]. If you don't mind me saying so, it sounds plainly awful stuff:- Jane.
Ohhh Illuvatar my head hurts!!! No, in fact everything hurts!-anyone know what happened to me during the last two days?- I'm a bit, ahem, vague.
I thought something like that might have happened :lol: Didn't see you on all new year's day!
((( "Ahh... my own little thread. I can almost be thankful that old recalcitrant, Grey Pilgrim forced me to make this as a refuge in those dark times when everyone turned against me. Now it's "girl" troubles. Thank goodness I can come here, far away from the maddening crowd - and girls can be maddening at times. Don't you agree?" "Of cousre I do, Little Seedcake." "They just can't be reasoned with, truth be known. It's true, isn't Primmy?" "Of course it is, Honeybunch."' "Not you, of course, at least you can be logical... after a fashion... Isn't that so?" "You know me only too well, Scrummins. Oh poor thing... Would you like me to massage your neck?" "Oh that would be lovely, Petal; I do feel a bit stiff just now... sigh... You are a diamond among coal-stones, Primmy, and no lie..." )))
(((Hi Odo, Primula. Thought I'd find you here, for some reason your hole is much easier to locate when I'm sober. I brought you some buckie to console yourself and a false moustache so you can avoid the upsurge in women's rights going on everywhere else. I did try to warn you. Get us a couple of glasses for the buckie Primula. there's a dear. Hey, Odo old pal, have you noticed an odd look in Primula's eyes? You don't think word of this has reached her ears do you? Given her, [i:1bm6leqp]ideas[/i:1bm6leqp]? I hear that Mirabella has got herself mixed up in all this, she'll be refusing to bake your seed cakes before you know it, mark my words.)))
[quote="Odo Banks":1mql82r8](((Look what I found, Mr Tyrant! "The Queen is most anxious to enlist everyone who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of ''Woman's Rights'' with all its attendant horrors on which her poor, feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feeling and propriety." Queen Victoria What can I say? Wise woman, that Queen Victoria! :ugeek: )))[/quote:1mql82r8] Is that a REAL Q Victoria quote, or one of Wise Odo's made-up quotes? <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> [b:1mql82r8]GB[/b:1mql82r8]
(((Never you mind about Mirabella, Dear Mr Tyrant. She's a good girl at heart. As sensible a girl as one is ever likely to meet. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> )))
(((Look what I found, Mr Tyrant! "The Queen is most anxious to enlist everyone who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of ''Woman's Rights'' with all its attendant horrors on which her poor, feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feeling and propriety." Queen Victoria What can I say? Wise woman, that Queen Victoria! :ugeek: )))
[i:5vtx0ozv]"How could you doubt Odo, my friend, Of course the quote is genunine, Victoria was such a wise old Queen, The wisest Queen there's ever been, Queen of 'Sense', Queen of 'Respect", Not one 'manner' did she neglect. Especially when it came to the 'Feminine', She had strict rules way back when, Yes girls knew their place, were nicer then - Yes Girs were Girls and Men were Men!" [/i:5vtx0ozv] This was compiled by my good friend, Hippo Lassbeater. (He's the current King's Laureate, The Shire, in case you missed the latest edition of the Archet Prattle, GB). Hippo, like all [i:5vtx0ozv]right[/i:5vtx0ozv] thinking hobbits, has joined HATTERS ("Hobbits Against Thoughtless Thinking - Especially Rampant Silliness"Wink Smilie, a community group formed (very) recently to combat the rising tide of , so-called, "Girl Consciousness."
"my good friend, Hippo Lassbeater. (He's the current King's Laureate"- Wise Odo What? This is an outrage. He may be a friend Wisey (and of suspicious name, Lassbeater is common enough- in Scotland anyway- but Hippo?) but I'm sure all agree the role of Kings' Laureate should be yours. Whats with this usurper and his inferior channeling skills? Its disgraceful. Sod the women problems Wisey I'm off down the Mayors office with a belly of Buckie and a crabbity mood on!! :twisted: Soon sort this out and have you reinstated.
Your hints are right about old Hippo Lassbeater, Petty, he is indeed a Scotshobbit, from Scotshollow, near Glasgow, I believe. But fear not, for all that his First name is slightly quirky (I suspect he has nicknamed himself - he is a Poet, after all), he is unlike any other "Lassbeaters" I know nowadays, for he maintains the Family Traditions*, of which you seem to be aware, not like others of his (formerly) illustrious family, who are "Modernists" all. As to the Lauretteship --- I am merely a channeller, as you know, a fine gift in itself, granted, but I can't be called a Poet myself. (((*The family crest used to be the stylized depiction of a Gentlehobbit spanking a Maid on his knee, tradition suggest she burned the porridge - or added sugar rather than salt? - but it is now a Spiky haired crone opening a door for a nervous fop. Sad, really...)))
Ah well, might have been better had you said that Wisey [i:260fuy94]before[/i:260fuy94] I visited the Mayor- still they can redecorate :? . A Scothobbit you say, mmm, wonder if he has a buckie distillery with him?
Is the male response to all things they don't like, violence and destruction, Petty? As a member of that a sex that has long been on the receiving end of traditional male behavior, I must say, I for one have grown quite tired of it. And is buckie your answer to all life's problems? You know, it doesn't help. I do believe I will have to organize something. Perhaps some placards and some rotten eggs and tomatos for a start are the order of the day. Now, where did you say you lived, Petty? When a woman is roused she is not easily disuaded. :x As to those old folks, Odo and Wisey - Rushock Bog was it? As Monty Burns would say, "Excellent...":-Jane
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