Thread: Expectations for the second Hobbit movie
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It should be a given that the first will be fairly true to the book but the second, that's a different story...............
What I mean is that the wealth of extra background of information Tolkien had for his world was huge. But they are much more so a series of other events taking place between Hobbit and LotR instead of a singular narrative. Take for instance the reopening of Moria and Saurons forces building in Mordor. How can these two elements be linked in one narrative?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Nazgul taking Minas Ithial (Minas Morgul) and some major battles in Osgiliath. I would also love to see Balin taking room after room and trying to reopen Moria. Perhaps even a cameo for the Balrog could be seen. I just don't see how a 2 to 4 hour movie (remember who is producing this) could link these stories and still do them and other elements justice.
What I want is nothing short of a movies that cover the songs of the Auir through the end of LotR. What I expect is something much less.
For the second Hobbit movie I expect to see the White Council driving the Necromancer (Sauron) from Mirkwood. Followed by his return to Mordor and the marshalling of his strength. These elements would be balanced with the inaction of the White Council, the growing evil of Saruman, and the movements of Gollum in search of the Ring.
Cameos of established characters being plentiful. Theoden, Eomer, Eyowen (sp?) and Wormtoungue are easy to show up during the fall from grace of Saruman. Aragorn can be seen serving Denethor, Theoden and in the search for Gollum. He's has been a busy man. Legolas will likely get his Cameo in the first Hobbit movie. Of course Gondor scenes will have Faramir and Denethor. And if he can make it, perhaps good old Sean Bean can look good in a movie. Showing much of the work and effort Boromir put into his country. Perhaps this would also give Del Toro a chance to show the desparation that Boromir felt before being tempted by the ring. Also showing some of why the Ring tempted him so well in LotR.
After these movies I would like to see one more. In proper modern hollywood technique. Another prequel movie should be made. Simply take part of the Fellowship Prolouge and make a movie. Show the story that led to the building and execution of the Last Alliance. Good story and with an obvious climax battle. Not to mention offering a wonderful opportunity to show that Isildur wasn't as weak as the prolougue makes him out to be. He did much good including saving a sapling of the white tree from destruction at the hands of the last king of Numenor.
Also Ady, I was wondering if you had any more current info on on the Tintin movies. I am a huge fan of Herge.
Also Ady, I was wondering if you had any more current info on on the Tintin movies. I am a huge fan of Herge.
It looked like dying a quick death when the money men pulled out. Because you have 2 big names working on it (jackson and spielberg), there is a larger junk than normal already spoken for and that got the bankers worried.
I hope they find a good actor for Beor. I think he has one of the more important roles so I hope they a good actor. It would not mind if he was tall and strong.
Gogo The hobbit
Hi my beard =)
But about Del Toro, I really don't know what to expect. Pan's Labyrinth was so far from anything Tolkien that it's kind of hard for me to judge how he will do on The Hobbit. I think the most comforting thought is the fact that Fran Walsh, Peter Jackson, and Phyllipa Boyens (sp?) will be on the script. The LOTR script was phenomenal, and, to an extent, you could say that the screenplay is one of the most important parts of a movie. For example, the Narnia script was quite bad, and in fact the language seemed quite modern. That fact took a lot away from the film, making it seem less real. With LOTR, the language was much like Tolkien, which was why it was such a hit. Although the film will have a Del Toro feel, the script will be much like LOTR. That will also help with continuity as a 5-part film.
I guess what I mean is that I don't know what kind of flavor Del Toro will bring to it. I hope his flavor will be favorable!
Then a nice new big hatred started with the Silmarils. If you interested in the whole story, please read the Silmarillion. But on of the jewels was recovered by King Thingol (elf). He also had a Dwarven Necklace (I forget the name) of unsupassed beauty. He then contracted dwarves to set the Silmaril in the Necklace. But when the work was done, such greed entered the hearts of the Dwarves that they slew Thingol and attempted to flee with Necklace & Silmaril. Long story short, the slaying of Thingol lead to the downfall of Doriath and one of the last few Elven Kingdoms to fall before Morgoth was finally overthrown.
Much later the elves of Hollin and the Dwarves of Kazadum would make a great friendship. As seen by the doors to Kazadum (Moria) in LotR. What ended that one I'm not sure. But I believe it was Sauron and the Rings of Power.
In the movie mention of the Fall of Moria to Orcs and the Balarog might come up, but any further backstory on the Dwarves I don't see happening.
Interesting to note though is that Thorin Oakenshield earned the ekename Oakenshield in battle at the gates of Moria. That could find it's way into a prolouge for Hobbit if they find a nice was to do it.
Should start with Saruman communicating with Minas Tirith via Palantir, discussing the threat in Mirkwood. Saruman tries to convince Ecthelion that there is nothing to worry about. End transmission. There will be various other scenes of Saruman surveying the land with the palantir throughout the movie. We have Gandalf and Galadriel in Lorien, also discussing the topic. Galadriel annoyedly remarks that she tried to get Saruman to hold a meeting of the white council but he refused. There will be Aragorn and Arwen's first meeting, and a plot dump full of Aragorn backstory. There is a scene with Saruman perusing old maps. We hear him muttering, "Isildur- Anduin..." and running his finger along an old map. He smiles and we see for the first time something sinister about him.
For a nice change of pace, Elrohir and Eldoran (I think that's their names) will encounter a party of orcs on the Gladden fields, searching the river. There's a decent battle sequence, and upon inspection of a corpse in the aftermath Elrohir notices that their shields bear the red eye. He says nothing but he shares a meaningful glance with Eldoran.
Aragorn meets Arwen again. This time they get a chance to talk, and Aragorn makes a complete fool of himself. Arwen rejects him.
Elrohir and Eldoran are back in Rivendell. They tell their father about the orcs, mentioning that Sauron's forces had never gone so far North. He frowns but, again, says nothing.
Gandalf and Saruman are sitting together in Orthanc, along with a dusty old book. Gandalf tells Saruman about the orc party. Saruman's eyes flash for another moment, and we again see the evil, ambitious side of him, for just a split second. Then he explains about his findings, and admits (ever so carefully so as to make it appear that everyone was wrong except for him) that the ring was lost in the Gladden fields where Isildur died, and that if there are orcs searching the Anduin, that means Sauron is looking for the ring. Gandalf expresses the urgency of this matter, and implores Saruman to hold a white council meeting immediately, as Galadriel requested. Saruman does not like being told what to do, but grudgingly agrees.
A scene very much like the council of Elrond, in which Saruman acts arrogantly but subtly, trying to influence everyone's decisions on the matter. It seems most people have their minds made up, though, and the final resolution is a full-out attack on Dol Guldur.
There are multiple scenes of preparation for war, and Aragorn being a knob again. Then, there is an epic half-an-hour battle scene at Dol Guldur, intercut with various conflicts between characters. There is a tribute to the final battle of Dol Guldur, where Galadriel summons a storm. Anyway, heaps of visual effects, city gets destroyed, Sauron moves out, wood-elves move in, all's well.
Except for the end montage, in which we see a half-constructed Barad-Dur, with a palantir resting in the darkness. A thicker blackness rests around it, and fire licks the inside of the palantir. Cuts to Saruman holding the Orthanc palantir firmly in his outstretched hand, a strange light in his eyes. Fade out.
And that's it, because, let's face it, nothing else important happens for another thirty years or so. Then, Frodo goes to live with Bilbo, Arwen falls for Aragorn, Aragorn actually gets to do some exciting stuff. Then, another couple of decades later, there's all the stuff with Gollum, and the dwarves and Moria. Which is why I think there should be a third prequel, with the climax being the orcs attacking the Mirkwood elves, and the subsequent escape of Gollum, in which we find out about Frodo, we resolve Aragorn/Arwen's thread, and we learn what's happened to the ring. This is the problem, I guess, when you give a film a sixty year time frame.
- to see the white council!
- to see the corruption of Saruman the white!
- to see the first meeting of Aragorn and Arwen and how the blossom to fall in love.
- I think also to see Aragorn trying to find Gollum
There is so much more that needs to be added in aswell I believe, some sort of a battle? or just something else to fit in the missing points between the hobbit and the lord of the rings to make them fit in together, this film should deffinetly try to bring is into the lord of the rings movies.
There is also a chance the old hobbits - Billy boyd, Domonic monaghan, sean astin and eligah woods will be making an appearence, from the source of UK's GMTV billy boyd made an appearence and there was a question about the hobbit, as they asked "will you and your friends who played hobbits be returning to middle earth?" and he responded "I'm not sure whats going on in the future but you'll have to wait and see". (that might not have been what was said exactly but you never know this could be an indication for either the 1st or 2nd movie, most likely the 2nd)
I do hope they return! Especially pippin and merry they were the funniest in my opinion lol.
I do not see where in the written story a sort of "Ah Ha!" point would be that he turned. The way I read it involved a slow process where by first came desire. Sauruman did not want to become evil, only powerful to stop evil. He began with much reading and researching of Sauron, trying to discover more and more. It was through studying him so closely that desire entered his heart on he began to search for the ring, not to stop Sauron, but to overpower him and take control of MiddleEarth. And then eventually was ensnared by Sauron in the Palantir and finally became just another agent of Sauron (albiet a powerful agent).
In film there would have/likely be a distinct turning point for his character. So I pose the question, where is the turning point in the films?
Middle Earth together and bring Peace to Middle Earth (The peace of the dead of course).
I would like to see Modor forces take Osgiliath myself, and maybe the corruption of Minis Ithil.
Could this in turn stretch the story of The Hobbit across both films and make all the "other film" material stretch across both as well?
-if so, would the enrich or ruin The Hobbit?
If my assesment of the timeline is right (I accept I may have been wrong), would they simply shift the timing to suit their needs?
I feel that the most important thing to show in the second movie (assuming the second still links Hobbit to LotR) is Sauron and/or his forces. Things are getting worse, much worse. The darkness is returning. I want to see the ominous of the world around the Shire.
But that is just my two cents.
You're experiment is working.
Hope not, would love to watch 2 Hobbit films.
Hope not, would love to watch 2 Hobbit films.[/quote:2sr0sxw8]
I haven't heard that rumor in months, if not years. Where'd it come from most recently?
Hope not, would love to watch 2 Hobbit films.[/quote:36vtdcht]
I haven't heard that rumor in months, if not years. Where'd it come from most recently? [/quote:36vtdcht]
[quote="Odo Banks":36vtdcht]Thankfully, with things how they're going with the Film Company, they will only be able afford one movie. (One, in fact, might be one too many!)[/quote:36vtdcht]
GDT (who, despite later stepping down, was heavily involved with writing the script) announced quite some time ago that the two movies would both cover the story of The Hobbit plus whatever other simultaneous stories they added (the only known one is Dol Guldur/The White Council). The old Hobbit + Bridge idea appears to have been abandoned. There were rumours of 2 Hobbits + Bridge but both PJ and GDT said they weren't interested in directing a third [i:26gqqcx8]Hobbit[/i:26gqqcx8] film.
Though, won't that present a problem since Christopher Lee said he wouldn't return to his role as Saruman? They could cast a new Saruman of course, but that would be like casting a new Gandalf, they've both done terrific jobs with their respective roles, and casting new ones would just be weird (in my opinion).
Though, knowing Jackson's approach to the books, he might just as well leave Saruman out of the whole thing. I'm not actually sure what I would prefer, new Saruman or no Saruman... I guess Saruman has to be there nonetheless, so new Saruman would probably be the better of the two.
Personally, I hope that - if they absolute [i:5o1x01vu]have[/i:5o1x01vu] to include that plotline - they would leave the Necromancer in the background since they established Sauron as a disembodied Eye in LOTR. If they show him differently they create inconsistency (a pet peeve of mine), but if they show him as already an Eye that makes the question of how he got to Mordor even more ridiculous than it already is.
Perhaps more importantly, what's left offscreen is often scarier than what can be seen since it leaves more to the imagination, as you point out.
[quote:5o1x01vu]Though, won't that present a problem since Christopher Lee said he wouldn't return to his role as Saruman?[/quote:5o1x01vu]
Lee said he'd be willing to shoot his scenes in London but didn't want to travel to New Zealand again at his age. Since he's only getting older as MGM drags on I don't know if he's changed his mind again.
Lee said he'd be willing to shoot his scenes in London but didn't want to travel to New Zealand again at his age. Since he's only getting older as MGM drags on I don't know if he's changed his mind again.[/quote:3in7zmfh]
Now, that's good news! Hopefully he hasn't changed his mind and with some bluescreen magic, things will work out
About the Dreaded Necromancer,
They'll take away his evil walk,
And make him be a prancer!
Unbelieveable!? My naive friends,
Believe it because it's true!
It came to me in contemplation,
While transfixed upon the loo.
Things were coming out of me,
But visions were going in ---
Tolkien staggered mortified,
At the things PJ was showing him.
"What's the Council doing here?
Oh Peter, why must you torment me?"
And if you have to have him, lad,
Why the prance? -- Why taunt me?"
So you see, it's all true,
For I dreamed it on the dunny,
It's where I get my best visions ---
And that's not the least bit funny! [/i:2y62k57q]
Betty White: "Another One on Behalf of Wisey who hasn't got off yet."
Wise Odo Actually he might be --- ??? Queer business... A case of Forum Fatigue setting in?