Thread: Silmarillion, The Movie
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How about this: a long series of 8 movies, so that most of the best bits of the Silmarillion can be portrayed?
MIDDLE EARTH: THE FIRST AGE
1. The Beginning
can start with Illuvatar & the Creation as a prologue, including Melkor and later the awakening of the elves.
also, the life of the Noldor in Valinor, the Silmarils, the oath of Feanor, etc, ending with the coming of the Noldor to Beleriand, the death of Feanor, and the elves spreading and founding their kingdoms
2. The War of the Jewels
all the main battles of the war of the jewels in detail, the coming of men, introducing Hurin & Huor, and Barahir father of Beren
3. Beren & Luthien
starting with the introduction of Thingol & Melian & Luthien, and separately the death of Barahir & the adventures of Beren in the north, then the tale of Beren & Luthien in detail, ending with their return to Beleriand
4. The Children of Hurin
everything from the birth of Turin to his death, based on the Silmarillion and the version in Unfinished Tales, including the Fall of Nargothrond
the founding of Gondolin, including the tale of Aredhel, Eol, and Maeglin, and also the coming of Tuor to Gondolin, ending with his first meeting with Idril
6. The Ruin of Doriath
the tale of the ruin of Doriath and the Nauglafring based on both the Silmarillion and the version in The Book of Lost Tales 2, ending with the escape of Elwing and her growing up in the Havens
7. The Fall of Gondolin
This has to be my favourite one.
based mainly on the complete version in the Book of Lost Tales 2, but with adjustments as it is a very early version, starting with the wedding of Tuor & Idril, the birth & childhood of Earendil, the capture & treachery of Maeglin, then the Fall of the City in detail as it is in the Book of Lost Tales 2, ending with the escape of the Exiles, the duel of Glorfindel & the Balrog, and finally the coming of the exiles to the Sea and the meeting of Earendil and Elwing
8. The Voyage of Earendil
starting with Earendil & Elwing, including the voyage of Tuor & Idril, the various voyages of Earendil, the attack of the Sons of Feanor, the childhood of Elrond and Elros, the final voyage of Earendil with Elwing to Valinor, and finally the War of Wrath and what happens to all the remaining characters.
It's only a dream, I know its practically impossible, but it would be sooooo awsome to see something like this
no one can understand what he thought,why he did such things........like scarifice his life for the love between Beren and luthien.......
At least,i cann't understand him at all
I love meeting fellow Finrod-appreciators.
I agree that nobody, and I mean, NOBODY could ever play Finrod satisfactorily. Hollywood would butcher the role and get some blond pretty-boy to play him. And he probably wouldn't even be given that big a role...
Oh well... one can still dream and hope, I suppose...
I don't see how a movie could ever be accomplished of the Sil. It is fragmented and each fragment is so steeped with complexities and grief, unbearable grief in my opinion. I am not sure how much of that an audience can take if there is no happy resolution. In LOTR, although each character in the main suffered terribly and some were mentally harmed as well as physically, there was healing of sorts and there were a couple of happily ever afters to make all the horror and the anguish bearable.
When I read the Sil and Unfinished Tales I get the sense that somehow a bit of a nervouse breakdown or great depression or physical exhaustion attended the author along with the richness of mind and the wealth of comedies he had immersed himself into over the years that came from different countries.
Think of it, Jrr had lost his father, then his mother, then for a couple of years the girl he wished to marry. He then was swept into the horror and sorrow of war, grieved for his young friends who used to have merry teas with him , now gone forever from the face of the earth. How much of all this stayed with him , accompanied him by day and by night, sobered his thoughts, immersed him in certain darkness we don't know. But it seems to have had some influence on his works.
I agree Leelee, I think it's simply impossible to turn the Silmarillion into a movie. It would be better off as some sort of high-budget/high-production miniseries from HBO or something, though even that is shifty.
The Children of Hurin could make a great film. Lot's of room to mess up, but if pulled off it could be epic. I'd see it...
HBO is doing A game of thrones and the author of the books himself is praising it. So it should be possible for LOTR as well.
The current movie industry is too focused on action to be able to present an adaptation faithful to the spirit of LOTR. Even Peter Jackson's was pretty much hit and miss.
The exception, perhaps, is Christopher Nolan considering what he did with Batman.
There won't be movie for The Silmarillion, or at least I think it's very unlikely. The events of Beleriand wouldn't even fit to 30 dvd's with length of 3 hours. And that is a fact.
To Virumor, I actually had that in mind when I was thinking about it. I forgot what the series was called though, I just knew there was some sort of epic/fantasy miniseries in the works that was based on a novel. I think I first heard about it like...4 or 5 years ago though :/
I truly believe that any attempt to make a movie, even 3 or 4 movies of the Silmarillion is destined for failure. Its simply too massive a story to do justice to in 12 hours of film. Peter Jackson only just pulled it off with the LOTR and he had to make massive story edits and changes to achieve his masterpiece/s. I think that a big budget serialisation of the stories from the Silmarillion is the way to go. Well produced 1 or 2 hour special shot on film with best available CGI would be fantastic. Im sure however that in the future some one will come along and try to make a film. I wish them luck as I would hate to see a bad version of any of Tolkiens work go out to the general population.
Oops, sorry forgot about the players....
Liv Tyler- Luthien (Arwen is meant to mirror her beauty)
Hugh Jackman - Turin
Brad Pit - Dior
Cate the Great - Galadriel
Natalie Portman - Elwing
Raife Fiennes - Thingol
Feanor - Colin Farrell
Liam Neeson - Manwe
Hello there to you all. I hope you are alright. I've often thought of The Silmarillion being filmed and after listening to the audio books and reading the theories of what others may think the filming processes should go I feel that if a mammoth film project is mounted it should be done ironically rather similar to the LOTR and now The Hobbit but in reverse.
The intro to the film project should be like The Hobbit when tackling The Quenta Silmarillion filmed as part 1 followed by part two. Part 1 of "Film One" encompassing in Aniulindale as one three hour, three and a half hour film then Part 2 of "Film One" covering the Valaquenta. These two are approached with such films in mind as 2001: A Space Odyssey crossed with certain sequences as seen in Brainstorm with Christopher Walken, elements of 2010: The Year We Make Contact, merely for its epic scope and many other subjects that are relevant to inspire the first section of the book which essentially plays out more-or-less as a musical if you think about it. Much like Disney's "Fantasia".and the "entering of the Stargate" sequence at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
The next section to follow would essentially be a trilogy consisting of single three and a half, nearly four hour films that chart events from maybe more ecconomised titling:
"Film Two" Of the Valar, The Elves and Men in Middle Earth
"Film Three" Of Beren, Luthien and the Ruin of Beleriand
"Film Four" Of the Fall of Numenor and the Rings of Power
(These films would all have an Avatar-like sense of scale, otherwordlyness and the like)
Somewhere we see the correlation with the intro sequence of The Lord of the Rings where the Elves are battling and this could encompass from begining to end the entirety of The Silmarillion proper.
The other possible way is to do the begining as one massive film cut into two parts The Quenta Silmarillion filmed as part 1 followed by part two. Part 1 of "Film One" encompassing in Aniulindale as one three hour, three and a half hour film then Part 2 of "Film One" covering the Valaquenta.
Or "Film One" of The Quenta Silmarillion could be filmed as:
"Film One"Film One" (part one) Aniulindale
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film One"Film One" (part two) Aniulindale
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Two" O "Film Two" (part one) Valaquenta
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Fil"Film Two" (part two) Valaquenta
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
__________________________________ (part one)
"Film Three" (part one) Quenta Silmarillion
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Three" (part two) Quenta Silmarillion
"Film Four" (part one) Of the Valar, The Elves and Men in Middle Earth
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Four" (part two) Of the Valar, The Elves and Men in Middle Earth
( between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Five" (part one) Of Beren, Luthien and the Ruin of Beleriand
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Five" (part two) Of Beren, Luthien and the Ruin of Beleriand
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Six" (part one) Of the Fall of Numenor and the Rings of Power
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Six" (part two) Of the Fall of Numenor and the Rings of Power
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length) !
mmmm after re thinking upon re reading your posts I realise that the problem with casting any film from the anals of the Sil will be height and beauty.... Most actors are only average or short in stature and as the average height of the Elves, male and female would be tall by todays standards, and the height of the Numemoreans was verging on 7 feet tall, this could be a problem. Also both Elves and Western Men, as we know are exceedingly fair, producers would need to scour the world for beautiful and tall actors. Could be a massive problem, as they also would need to be rather classical type actors.
Yes but Brego, they made human actors look and appear seven-odd-feet tall via computer generated world of Pandora and rendering for Avatar. So why then cannot the same principle be applied to this enterprise? Seven feet seven hundred! It makes no difference when inside a computer world... anything is possible! Providing the budget justifies it as well, you know...
Yes very true Illuvitar and I agree re CGI. However do you think we are ready for good solid acting roles from fully CGI Humans and Elves? Blue, Alien Navi are one thing, but I dont know if the tech is good enough to expect Bafta award winning performances just yet. Having said that, the Ainur and the beginning would be glorious in full CGI magnificence...
We don't need to expect to get a Bafta out of it! As long as the overall realizing of The Silmarillion as a film to fit in line with the others that have been made is good enough for me. A Bafta would be good but the actual making of the film from begining to its end and made GOOD is of primary importance first to me. And incidentally, we do see Humans turn up in Avatar and over the course of the film "become" Na'Vi where as there are those there whom are ALREADY Na'Vi and we just buy it straight away, well most of us do anyway. Some criticize Avatar but it is a pretty-good looking film so as long as the realization of The Silmarillion is good you can have good actors like Andy Serkis being Gollum and Caesar in Rise of the Planet of the Apes and the actors who are the Na'Vi that could just as easily be John Hurt, Alan Rickman, Edris Elba, Naomi Rapace etc, etc their good acting skills would shine through the CGI. Surely you can understand and get that point already without me having to explain it to you. You must be able to already know that without me having to go-out-of-my-way to point it out. to me it is instinctive. criticize
If there's a group of people on film who are really in the range of around 5 feet 8 inches to 6 feet tall, for example, I could easily enough imagine them all as being a foot taller.
And don't include a yardstick anywhere in the scene
I think notable divergences could be avoided -- for instance, as long as Thingol (described as the tallest of Eru's children) is not relatively short or something, compared to someone standing next to him.
Anyway I wouldn't expect any director to limit casting to people who are actually close to seven feet tall!
Of course not! As long as they are GOOD actors and the filming technology go hand-in-hand to both compliment one-another then you have already got a winning combination. Short, medium, tall actors its all the same as long as they make the film come ALIVE then its a fantastic possibility!
It doesn't need to be Shakespeare to be a great film BREGO!!! Where is your brain at!!?? If an award or many are granted to a Silmarillion film then FINE!! That's a bonus, of course! I would not dispute that if it were to happen! But no ones saying that Avatar is expected to be a Shakespearan performance just because it is a more computer generated image affair! As compared to a picture that is more conventional. As soon as anyone begins to discuss a film heavily laden with computer graphics suddenly people like you suddenly down-grade it to not being worthy of say any standard other than Shakespeare! Well no one is going into making a film say like The Silmarillion with the intention of competing with or attempting to be better than Shakespeare in the first place!! The intention is to make a damn good film first-and-foremost. Avatar, the LOTR's trilogy, soon-to-be: The Hobbit, the Star Wars saga, they are all films where the magnitude of the story and realizing it comes first, ALWAYS!! We can debate the quality of the prequel trilogy and there would be good grounds for being disappointed there, fine, done I accept that! But any kudos should not be the driving force to making the film it should be about utilizing EVERY CONCEIVABLE METHOD, whether technologically current or traditional tried-and-tested tricks of the eye, as long as it works and a true EPIC maste-=piece is created, that's then icing on the cake! Trying to hammer this point home into the defiant mind sets of people like you is like pulling teeth! Many others get this point instantaneously, why can't you!!!??? What are you even talking about anyway????
Surely Peter Jackson has proved his worth once-over already with regards to the LOTR's and is currently in the process of proving himself again right now with The Hobbit so it's inevitable that the Creme-de la-Creme would fall to The Silmarillion and with him doing it it would naturally fall to him in making it his very own Magnus Opus!! He's proved himself twice, so it's a foregone conclusion that The Silmarillion will work out just fine if ever committed to film. And with WETA digital being as good as it is currently and a Silmarillion project may be off in the future five years from now say, who knows what leaps and strides the filmic technologies are going to take! Get behind it, because whether you like -it-or-not, its more than likely that it is going to happen at some point in the future, its just people like you need to be dragged into the 21st century to get with the program... It seems so blatantly obvious, why not to you????? Your one of these people that no matter what someone says to you if can't be done! It can be done and it will be proved to you and everybody who wants to think like you do that in time, it WILL BE DONE! and it will be proved to you that it can be done.. you wait and see!!! So GET USED TO IT!!!
And with WETA digital being as good as it is currently and a Silmarillion project may be off in the future five years from now say,...
Granted it's conjecture, but why five years? The rights to The Silmarillion belong to the Tolkien Estate and there is currently no indication that Christopher Tolkien plans to sell the film rights (nor will the book automatically enter the public domain with his eventual passing).
I've read that possibly, to the contrary, the rights have been sold and it was aquired reasonably cheap. it is common knowledge to keep assuming that Christopher Tolkien is the bad guy misery-guts holding onto the rights of all the Tolkiin literature, but it may just be he has held-out long enough for the best dea to come along. Its all about what book came out first as opposed to which one succeeded it and so-on. The Hobbit was written then followed by The Lord of the Rings trilogy to then be followed by The Silmarillion in the order of publishing history. So by that reckoning the closer you get to the gap between the last book being published and to now, there is not that much of a gap in time as compared to The Hobbit which was published a lot longer before. Hence why the litigation rights and court room wranglings went on for so long. I feel as though the Tolkien estate is just holding out for the best deal and why not? After all, these films are bringing Tolkeins material to a wider masses of people that would not have other-wise have probably read his . Film bridges that gap and is a visual epitaph to J.R.R. Tolkiens mastery of writing. It can only play to the good. And doesn't it strike you as if they aquired The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit rights to make a film out of them all that it is not that difficult and therefore a fore-gone conclusion that the most logical thing that is now going to happen is The Silmarillion will inevitably follow suit? Makes perfect sense to me!!! Maybe more of you need to get onto the same page for once!
Quote: (from one source upon the internet which can be debatable I know, but here it is none-the-less)
Peter Jackson to Film 95 Hour Adaptation of Silmarillion
New Zealand’s best known movie maker will film an $800 million adaptation of JR Tolkiens book The Silmarillion it was revealed today.
The announcement was made by Robert Shaye, co-CEO of New Line Cinema who will be funding and distributing the five films.
‘We are pleased to announce that we now own the adaptation rights to this book and that Peter Jackson has agreed to produce and direct it,’ Shaye said.
While the rights to Tolkien book The Hobbit were recently sold off for multi-million dollar sums Shaye told reporters that The Silmarillion was ‘surprisingly cheap.’
‘Nobody owned it,’ Shaye said. ‘The Tolkien estate gave it to us for virtually nothing. Isn’t that crazy?’
Details of the adaptation are scares. It is understood that it will consist of five films, each roughly twenty hours long – although it is understood that the initial cinematic releases might be edited down to less than a dozen hours.
The first film, Ainulindalë is scheduled for release in 2018 but already fans of Jackson and Tolkien are buzzing with anticipation.
‘This is going to be totally awesome,’ wrote independent film critic Harry Knowles on his popular web-review site AintitCool.com. ‘I can’t wait to see the scene where Eru is singing and the rest of the Ainur join in but Melkor wants to sing his own song. That is just gonna' be balls-to-the-wall f**king amazing – especially if the rumours about Christopher Walken playing Melkor are true. Christopher Walken rocks!’
It is also understood that Jackson is planning to move away from digital representations of large battles – many of which occur in the third film, the Quenta Silmarillion.
‘What we did with Lord of the Rings was groundbreaking at the time but is now standard in the industry,’ said a spokesperson for Weta workshop. ‘What Peter hopes to do this time around is film real battles with real weapons and real carnage.’
The Screen Actors Guild has yet to comment on Jacksons plan to butcher his cast but legions of Tolkien fans are signing up to die for the film.
‘I’d like to be eaten by a Balrog in the Battle of Sudden Flame, but I’ll probably end up being stabbed by some Orc,’ said one fan. ‘But that’s okay too.’
Jackson will need to keep some Tolkien fanatics alive, since all dialog in the film will be delivered in the fictional languages Quenya and Eldarin. The movies will not feature subtitles.
‘If that’s Peter’s vision then that’s what we want to do,’ Bob Shaye told reporters at a post-announcement press conference. ‘As far as I’m concerned it’s now Peter’s eight hundred million dollars and I know he’ll make five great movies with it.’
Shaye also admitted that he personally had not found time to read The Silmarillion but he was not concerned about its commercial prospects.
‘Peter Jackson and Tolkien,’ he said. ‘How can you go wrong?’
This was May or June 2008 but the path could well have been laid so Peter Jackson could flow neatly into The Hobbit and complete that film before embarking upon a few other projects and all the time The Silmarillion is being planned within the background. After the hiatus of The Hobbit dies down and Jackson has got a few of his other projects done such as a follow-up to Tin-Tin and possibly The Damn Busters and one-or-two others he will move nicely into The Silmarilion production.
I've read that possibly, to the contrary, the rights have been sold and it was aquired reasonably cheap.
Please cite the source, or post the link. I'm not aware of any sale myself.
I feel as though the Tolkien estate is just holding out for the best deal and why not? After all, these films are bringing Tolkeins material to a wider masses of people that would not have other-wise have probably read his. Film bridges that gap and is a visual epitaph to J.R.R.Tolkiens mastery of writing. It can only play to the good.
That may be your position but it's not necessarily Christopher Tolkien's view. I think Christopher Tolkien's own public statement -- that The Lord of the Rings is 'peculiarly unsuitable for transformation into visual dramatic form' -- implies that he would not have sold the film rights to The Lord of the Rings had it been up to him.
And doesn't it strike you as if they aquired The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit rights to make a film out of them all that it is not that difficult and therefore a fore-gone conclusion that the most logical thing that is now going to happen is The Silmarillion will inevitably follow suit? Makes perfect sense to me!!! Maybe more of you need to get onto the same page for once!
Get on to whose page however? Tolkien sold the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings back when he was alive, mainly because of tax reasons it appears -- and I would not agree at all that we thus necessarily have a foregone conclusion that Christopher Tolkien would sell the rights to the Silmarillion.
As soon as The Children of Hurin was published, the Estate announced on their official website that there are no plans for a film, for instance.
I just noted that you edited in your source Illuvitar.
We've discussed that here already and it's not true
For example, from your source (my emphasis):
'The Screen Actors Guild has yet to comment on Jacksons _plan to butcher his cast_ but legions of Tolkien fans are signing up _to die_ for the film. ''
Someone on the web is having a bit of fun.
I will site the refernece, just one moment...
Make of it what you will... There are others. I will endevour to site them here ach in duecourse and I will do so sinscerely alright...
Illuvitar, see my previous post.
Someone on the web is having a bit of fun, as I say. Please post any other source if you have one. One would think this would appear on the Estate's own website in any case.
Its not just that, I have read other sources too and heard some interview hints from Peter Jackson himself, again, I will endeavour to source them out and will post accordingly.. Bear with me and I will do so, o.k...
OK but as the internet is full enough of people joking around, or misinformation, I'll need to see something compelling. Here is the actual quote from the Estate's website regarding The Children of Hurin at least:
Are there any plans to produce a feature film from The Children of Húrin?
There are no plans of this nature in the foreseeable future.
Short and to the point
Illuvitar, you may think that any slap dash, get it out quick and stuff the acting will do re Tolkien. However I think you will find that despite the fact that a lot of fans were unhappy with some of the choices PJ made with story changes, we all agree that there is some very fine acting indeed in the existing films, and we all expect the same from any further movies.
Re Shakespeare, I consider some of Tolkien's world, words and fiction to be up there with that of WS. Therefor I expect any acting should be consistent with such fantastic and great tales.
That's "where my heads at" Buddy. So if your so keen to see a movie version of the Sil, then why not attempt it yourself and see what the reaction is if its not seen as a quality production.
Brego watch your mouth smart-ass!
I do not, IN THE SLIGHTEST, think there shoulbe IN ANY WAY-SHAPE-OR-FORM be a slap-dash attempt with such a literary works as The Silmarillion!!! You DO NOT UNDERSTAND my want and desire for the UP-MOST of standards when it comes to dealing with the likes of THIS particular masterpiece. The UT-MOST quality will only do, and it would be UTTERLY FANTASTIC if I were to somehow be involved in the creation, inception and execution in the most positive of sense of The Silmarillion... I would ATTACK such an oppourtunity with as much enthusiasim as I could muster-mister!! YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AT ALL to know that I would want to approach this with a lacsidasical manner. NO WAY!!! The way in which I think of this film and the types of directors I tend to gravitate towards are the likes of Stanley Kubrick, George Lucas,Stephen Spielberg, Ridley Scott, James Cameron, Christopher Nolan, Michael Mann, Tony Scott, Peter Jackson and there are more but real intellectual directors and direct thinking...
I want The Silmarillion to be made as a film but OBVIOUSLY with the best of intentions to both honor and thus compliment such an enterprise whilst at the same time there is scope for the readers to enjoy the book and also have the choice whether-or-not to embrace the film versions or not as would the film goers. The book of The Silmarillion is always there and both parties get what they want and serve to hopefully compliment one-another. Why trade one thing off over the other? Why can't it be a win-win situation for all? After all, the reason we are currently here discussing this subject is because at heart we are all Tolkien fans and surely that is what is important. Film has a way of reaching wider masses in tandem with the book of the same subject matter.
I agree with Illuvitar - I definitely wouldn't want to have "Silmarillion" the movie. I mean - it's is obviously very difficult but not impossible to film it - so I can see that happening. And if there's Silmarillion movie - I'm watching it, but I'm fine without it. I love the book too much (not that I don't love The Hobbit or LOTR) to see it being cut into a couple of movies, complied with one director or another, producers, Hollywood rules, box offices. The book is a magic, a mystery, it's a different thing for every person who reads it (everytime when you read it) and it surely requires a lot of imagination from the reader. I don't see Silmarillion's majestic, mythic, gracious atmosphere being translated well into some movie - considering how the movies in our world are being made.
Indis you misunderstand me, I want the film to be made of The Silmarillion, I have wanted that for such a long time! I'm all for a series of films being made of it and I was countering what Brego was dispelling in an earlier comment so you and I are in opposite ends on this here. I want to see a film projct attempted but many do not. Well, my answer to that is it is your UTTER LOSS!!! But I bet you and many nay-sayer like you after complaining like the childish individuals that you are wouldn't begrudge yourselves going to see it though if it ever was made into a film. Just like all those complaining double-stardard types that came out of the wood-work when the Lord of the Rings came out and soon to happen I'm sure with the up-coming The Hobbit now, they complained and moaned in their miserable corners but it still did'n't stop hem from going to see it anyway though did it! Double-standard way of thinking, do-as-I-say-but-not-as-I-do! It's a joke!
You lot would still go and see The Silmarillion films if they came out you KNOW you all would because fundamentally your all suckers for it deep-down inside and you wouldn't be able to contain yourselves and you know it! I think I know your types of thinking better than you know yourselves! You'd be a sucker for it just as I would, difference is, I know and want it to happen and would ultimately embrace such an enterprise if it were proposed from the out-set as you can have both the book and the film. You get the best-of-both-worlds and everybody wins! If you don't want to see it well don't go and watch it if it were ever to be made, nobody is forcing you to anymore than your being forced to come onto this forum. Just get out of the way for those of us whom are willing to embrace the idea if that is how you truely feel about it! Or change your mind a little and be flexible for both the book and a film franchise to exist side-by-side with one-another. Why not let it be a win-win situation for ALL concerned instead of this stuffy"It Can't Be Done" misery-guts attitude! If those types don't truly like it then p!@s off! That's what I say!
How old are you Iluvitar? 12? Get it together and discuss like a Human or whatever you are. Gosh did you get out of the wrong side of the bed or something.
Brego watch your mouth smart-ass!
If those types don't truly like it then p!@s off!
Illuvitar, watch yours, too, if you don't want to be banned from this site. This is a "family-friendly" site where topics are expected to be discussed in a civil manner. Resorting to calling people names because they don't agree with you is not acceptable here. Consider this an official warning.
Alright, Valedhelgwath, alright... I will, I will.
And incidentally, to other "certain" readers, I didn't get out of the wrong side of the bed or anything, this is me speaking my mind to typical same-ole', same-ole' thinking types that you hear time-and-time again whenever there is a franchise that comes out, you lot end-up saying the SAME SELDOM THINGS over and over and over. In the meantime the project that your all complaining about still goes ahead and gets made and usually it turns out o.k. in the end. Blade Runner had to prove itself to many over the years where-as some got onboard instantaneously. Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, o.k., we're all agreed it did let alot of people down in the long-run and dash many hopes for what they may have thought they were expecting. One or two quite interesting action set pieces though, like the Pod Race and the three person lightsabre battle, but that in-and-of-itself is not enough to sustain an ENTIRE THREE PART FRANCHISE!! Is it! You need more!! Trepidation did exist in some quarters for the LOTR's but on the whole it was widely received and I've always felt that maybe the Star Wars prequel Trilogy should have had a more biblical feel and scale to it as the Lord of the Rings did. Revenge of the Sith wasn't bad in places as it tied ever-more into Star Wars: A New Hope. But if you had taken the grandure of the LOTR's and added little bits of futuristic technology you essentially would have ended up with a more evocative portrayle of the Star Wars prequels. That's why the LOTR's trilogy as well as the first Star Wars trilogy (4,5 & 6) work so much better because their execution was done with a better state-of-mind. Most things committed to film usually work out in the end with the exception of a few disappointments along the way, some being: the way various bits were handled in the Aliens vs Predators series and the same goes for the Star Wars prequel trilogy. They were only kinda-o.k. in places but that is not acceptable in many ways when you are dealing with a franchise and expecting loyal fans and those new to the franchise to go and pay their good money just to be let down and have their hopes dashed by annoying things like Jar Jar Binks! If that character had not had acted so STUPID and George Lucas did not sort-of insult our intelligences with that ANNOYING character it may not have been so bad! That's why as compared to the Star Wars prequel trilogy the LOTR's wins hand-down. You hardly ever hear of THAT MANY people complain about it as compared to the Phantom Menace and the others. I went and saw The Phantom Menace in 3D simply because I was curious and want to prime myself for when they lead up to the Luke Trilogy, thats what I am waitinf for. There are those few Tolkien fans who are nit-picky but on the whole that's two for team-Jackson as I am supremely confident that The Hobbit will ROCK!!!!! Yoy wait and see! :-)
I share your enthusiasm Illuvitar and too believe that the Hobbit will be mind blowing. I'm starting to avoid looking on line for imagery and such to maximize the surprise.
Re The Sil, of course I would love to see a visual version of this masterpiece, and I think I wasn't clear regarding CGI. One day we will be watching movies which contain 100% believable human (and Elf) characters which look, act and feel real. I don't think we are there yet, but it wont be long.
Hullo Sam, hullo Illuvatar, how are you?
Illuvatar, I have been away for personal reasons and am just catching up. I noted that Val, one of the very very first council members has had 'speaks' with you. I hope you will understand what he said, this site is NOT a debating site as it were, it is a gentle , peaceable place where old and very very young alike gather to share our love and esteem of professor Tolkien, along with our hopes and dreams about what should come from the books and any appropriate movies in the future. We all have our thoughts, and what might be sheer tosh to one is manna to another. We are allowed to be passionate here, disagree strongly if we choose, but not allowed to say one person's thoughts are silly, archaic , whatever. We are all beautiful unique flowers in a huge fantastically beautiful garden.
So, if there are disagreements, the rules of engagement are kindness, considerateness and careful speech. We would like the children that come and participate to go away with the thought that we are a step above cruel and mean bickering.
That said, I look forward to reading your future posts.
And Val, each time you visit us i can smell the tang of the sea and hear the gulls and it is very very soothing. Thank you for making such efforts to come. I can only guess how extremely busy you are and fatigued at the end of a day.
Alright Leelee, o.k... :-)
Well Illuvatar, your gentle compliance holds you high already in my eyes. Thankyou.
My thinking is there would be a combination of Computer Generated Images (characters) along side quality human actors as well. I'm thinking along the lines of:
Kenneth Branna, John Hurt, Dominic West, Lena Heady, Ian McDirmid, Gerard Butler, John Shrapnel, Hugh Jackman, Russle Crowe, Natalie Portman, Hilary Swank, Gary Oldman, Mark Strong, Colin Firth, Andy Serkis, michael Caine, Tom Hardy, Christian Bale, Idris Elba, The cast from Dowton Abbey (they are numerous) Michael Fastbender, Helen Mirren, Kate Blanchet, Judi Dench, Hugo Weaving, Naomi Raopace, Daniel Craig, Helena Bonham Carter, Charlize Theron, the cast from Harry Potter (maybe) there are many, many, MANY, English, American, European and International cast that can be approach over the course of the contnual developing The Silmarilion franchise.
Heh... O.k. Thats alright... :-) x
Illuvitar, thank you for taking my reprimand with good grace. Looking back it was maybe a tad stern, but I wanted to stop any arguments from escalating further. I've not been around for a while, and didn't intend coming back to throw my weight around. Where it not for it being a long bank holiday in the UK, and the uncertainty of whether any other council members might be around over that period, I would have left it for one of the "younger" ones, who you are probably more familiar with to deal with. I'm sure Leelee's reprimand would have sounded far fairer and eloquent, though just as effective. I'm sure she practices the technique on her children, while according to my wife, I just scare mine.
Anyway, enough said on the matter. I look forward to reading more of your posts. I agree, the Silmarillion would make a great movie, but even more so than LotR, I think it would take a lot of adapting to convert into movie format. Unlike LotR, the Silmarillion has very little dialogue. I could almost picture a film adaption being made with a lot of narration rather than actual dialogue, and I think that would work. It would certainly provide that epic, biblical feel to it.
By the way, I'm no lawyer but this information reflects what I at least thought to be the case in Britain anyway, keeping in mind the Silmarillion was published in 1977 and Christopher Tolkien is still alive obviously. The History of Middle-Earth series (which essentially contains much of the constructed Silmarillion) was published even later of course.
The time period for copyright has grown continually longer over the last three centuries. Many think it is now absurdly long. In Britain the Copyright Act of 1842 introduced the idea of post mortem copyright protection; it established a copyright period of 42 years from the date of first publication or 7 years after the author's death, whichever was the longer.
The Copyright Act of 1911 extended the period to 50 years after an author's death; and the European Union Directive on Term of Copyright (adopted by the UK on 1 January 1996) further extended the standard period to 70 years p.m.a. Thus in 2009 works by authors who died in 1939 or any year thereafter remain "in copyright".
And while the 1977 Silmarillion was published posthumously, as it is an edited and constructed version compiled by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay, and even includes a measure of invention, I'm not sure if that makes Christopher Tolkien, and/or Mr. Kay, 'essentially' the author(s) with respect to copyright...
... but in any case there is more information here (if anyone knows if the following information is in error or outdated, please let me know).
Alright Valedhelgwath. I hear you. Thank you for your equal response back to me.
Incidentaly, can you upload images upon here as there are examples I would like to make note of and share for discerning and discussion purposes?