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Why on earth did I agree to do this....? Oh well. Where to start? Oh I know! Where's my dog-eared beloved venerated much read Hobbit now? Mmm... Oh, here by my side like it has always been... Let me see... "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit..." Can't do better than that! Glad the Spell of Encryption's on - Bracket-5, good! A brilliant mind needs to protect his brilliant thoughts from thought-thieves. Can't be too careful. Where was I? Oh yes: "In a hole in the ground..." So great for the voice-over... Sam's voice... Yes, perfect... just the kind of thing the Professor would approve... Aerial shot maybe as Sam narrates...over Hobbiton.... Bywater... doesn't really matter... The Water. Of course. Must have The Water - the fans will be looking for that. I know I will be. Yep! Coming along nicely already... The Hill... even the Party Tree...why not? It's just a tree and should be there...down the hillside somewhere....Yaaaawn... Hard work this..... I could do with a beer... Mmmmmmm....beer... "Hey you idiotic children! I'm going to the fridge! [b:1c3oor7b]I'M STILL ON THE COMPUTER! [/b:1c3oor7b]Don't touch it while I'm gone.... Bloody kids...."

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Shouldn't you be editing your book ODO?

[b:3gcpnqh1]GB[/b:3gcpnqh1]

Shush, you guys... Odo is deep in contemplation... I will let him out to play with you on the Vulgar Threads on his breaks, but I can't let you bother him while his creatively adaptative juices are flowing! Script writing is a serious business. Zillions of fans rely on him doing a brilliant job! Sticking to the book text do simplify to some degree...!

HOLD ON!!!!!!! This shouldn't be a "BANKS FAMILY ONLY" project! And if it is the will of the Valar, then i have a mind to change it!!!! IIII will direct the Hobbit! hahaha! AND IT WILL BE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

Got a suggestion Odo from reading the open pages- how about you start with the narration of the opening paragraph as you suggest- but camera ends up right outside the door of Bag End on the words-"and that means comfort". The door opens and the camera enters like an invited guest. Growing louder as the camera moves through Bag End is Bilbo humming an early version of the Road goes ever on. Bilbo is in his kitchen- drying his breakfast dishes, hinting that he is comfortable and a little boring. He goes out into the hall, selects his favourite smoking pipe from the rack (that goes all the way down to his toes) and looks a little wistfully at a map of the Shire on his wall (beyond the Shire it is just white) Mutters "Maybe one day" and then he stands on his front step to take in the morning air and have a pipe- then Gandalf appears.
All this leaves out is the bit about his mother and Tooks- it keeps the 'description' of Bag End intact. And all it adds is the map bit to hint at the adventurous Took lurking within which the actual opening text deals with. What you think?

Well short of exposition it would be difficult to convey that Bilbo was full of potential for adventure in his younger days but got soft and a bit fat in his middle years and the idea of adventure was buried- that is canonical. And as to the road goes ever on- there is I don't think anywhere it says when this was composed- that it is an early version is the reason its hummed not spoken and its main purpose is to provide a sound for the 'viewer' as the camera to home in on.
So no liberalism here- just film making.

I don't know, Mr Tyrant. You're having trouble convincing me, and so what chance have you of convincing those [i:3exwcvgq]other[/i:3exwcvgq] folk...

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Mr Tyrant, what say I get Mirabella to go that [i:3exwcvgq]extra [/i:3exwcvgq]mile ( ) with GB - and when he's at her mercy, she can get him to edit out your incriminating post... Folk on this Forum have short memories surely. We'll play dumb. Say we never saw it! That might work! GB's a Liberal, he'll surely do anything in exchange for the right [i:3exwcvgq]benefit[/i:3exwcvgq].... Mirabella won't like it, but we must think of the[i:3exwcvgq] bigger [/i:3exwcvgq]picture... our quest is poised on a [i:3exwcvgq]knife[/i:3exwcvgq] edge!

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We were at cross-postings, Mr Tyrant. Your explanation eases things a little I guess. I know this will sound out-there as films go, but I honestly think we can have the narrative all the way through to Gandalf saying "Good morning." While this is all going on, we can have the opening credits and the camera examining (for want of a better word) the things it describes. We would see Bilbo and his hobbit hole and The Hill and The Water - but Bilbo would be doing normal domestic Bilbo things while the narrative would be hinting (as it the book does) at what is probably buried inside! It would work fine as cinema. Once Gandalf arrives at Bilbo's door, the story really begins. Simple but effective! I still hold to the idea of the voice-over. Yes, I'm a little Liberal to suggest that it is Grandad Samwise's voice - but a voice-over I think is important in setting up the whole atmosphere and point of the tale. It also must be distant in time from the events themselves. A story is being told and then shown in film. To me it's actually Tolkien's voice talking. This is how we can make The Hobbit like The Hobbit, but explain without explaining it, how it differs from LotR. TH as a legendary story [i:2x5j70v4]from[/i:2x5j70v4] hobbit family History, while LotR [i:2x5j70v4]is[/i:2x5j70v4] History. It's not Bilbo's book as such, but the story as Sam knows it. (Shudder! A tiny bit of Liberalism might be required. Don't tell the Enemy though!!!)

I would tend to agree with you in a general sense, but what we are talking about is some superb writing which will not take long to recite. It could be just a male voice (to suggest Tolkien himself) and once the story starts with Bilbo on the doorstep and Gandalf's arrival, narration would not be necessary. This would give the beginnng of the movie a sense of freshness, I feel, not usual with narrations, purely because of the idiosyncratic way Tolkien introduces the story. Idiosyncratic may not be the word I'm really looking for - but there is a distinctiveness to at the beginning which is a joy to read and hear! It would work. By the time it is over we already feel we know Bilbo as he knows himself - from then on both he and we get to know him better through events. Later in the story I think we can readjust text narrative into conversation where necessary. Yes, we'll need conversation that is not in the book.

As I'm being all serious at the moment (not that I'm not always serious, mind!) I'll state now that I agree that the book can't be filmed exactly like the book. It's impossible to do so. Where Purism is involved, it is in staying true to what is in the book as far as possible. That's why things like The White Council must be mentioned (before the Battle of Five Armies) but not filmed as scenes, and the songs MUST stay in, though handled thoughtfully - and with voice only not musical instrumention, except for the dwarves song in the Unexpected Party which is actually accompanied by their own music. These things can be done.

The idea of a family film is important too. Overplaying the 'adult' side of things just won't work, as Tolkien found out himself when he tried to rewrite the book. The Hobbit has a flavor that MUST be retained. The comical and the dangerous go hand in hand (without the use of hackneyed jokes, verbal or visual!) Example: Bilbo's buttons bursting as he squeezes through the goblins' back door is amusing and exciting at the same time. (I imagine this scene as the door moving slightly, a weak shadow cast outside the cave, and brass buttons popping out of nowhere suddenly accompanied by appropriate noises of clothese being roughed and torn, then the sight of the weak shadow hurrying off away from the door).

My post is going funny. So I'll stop for breath...

I agree with Mr. Tyrant. There's a reason books are books: they're meant to be read, and nothing more. When you make them a movie, you have to alter them to fit movie standards. For example, certain emotions or thoughts ect. that are explained in the books can't always be interpreted on the screen. Also, you want to sell your product, so that means attracting as many customers as possible. You need to create a story that is relateable to audiences who have never heard of the Hobbit, which can include explaining, plot twisting, and character changing (I mean personality wise) to make the movie more... mundane? Personally, I think PJ did a great job of hooking in first time veiwers (like myself) to the trilogy, which is what REALLY matters, right?????

I'd keep the dishes just cause of the song later- no problem with picture of his dear old mum. Bilbo is standing at his front door in the book not sitting in his garden although he does sit by the door after Gandalf arrives- I think we should keep that. If we keep the map bit he could kind of snatch up his pipe as he goes out- as if its both a comforter and a reminder of the 'safe' world of the Shire.
I like the shadow idea- not quite sure on Gandlaf appearing in a 'gust of wind' as it were, might be a bit to blatant.
Could have Bilbo lightning his pipe as Gandalf arrives, so the shadow falls over him and his pipe lighting attempts then as he looks up the camera also pans up to reveal the dark silhouette of Gandalf against the bright sunny morning beyond. Then straight into the dialogue as is.

Cool. No letter box. Btw the puff of wind is in no way magic... just a natural puff of wind.. the merest hint of movement... [i:35909awn]outside[/i:35909awn] movement. A very subtle thing. Let's have simplicity but also nuances as well, what. I like nuance compared to obvious exposition, always. I trust adiences to go along with what's happening. Fantasy should always bring out that natural childish habit of following wherever life leads. And, yes, we MUST have the dishes. Good you reminded me. Perhaps this is what he finishes tidying away NEATLY before he goes off to do a little dusting...

Shall we wait for Tin to get back before proceeding? And I suppose GB and even that new interloper will want a say too . And Noom! Where are you? Fingolfin? Joseph Dwarf? Halfwise? Hail Manwe? Where have all those stout Forumers disappeared to I wonder???? Oh well, at least we should wait for Tin - after all, dishwashing and dusting and general tidying are involved, so we shoud have a Lady present! (Mirabella is busy with the costumes at the moment... )

Far as I am aware GP this one is free for all with Odo at the helm- so suggestions are welcome, even liberal ones I suppose! But the idea remember is to keep it as close as is possible to the source. So keep your copy of TH to hand.

I've been reading over An Unexpected Party and I foresee some trouble with the songs Odo!!! Mainly its the positioning of them- the chain of events goes- everyone eats all Bilbo's food, then they sing about the dishes as they put them away- then they go get their instruments, then they sing the 'break of day' song. Then they get down to actual planning. To keep it canon we will have to have 2 songs very close together, I'm not sure we shouldn't move the 'break of day' song to the end of the night and have Bilbo drift off to sleep listening to it- then waking with a start in the morning to an empty room.

Oh I like the dusting by the way- it set things up nicely (which I assume was your thinking Odo) for when Gandalf says "you are not at all yourself this morning- you have never dusted the mantelpiece!" with regards Bilbo failing to notice the dwarves letter.

But alongside the dish washing and stacking it would imply what we are talking about some sort of montage here of Bilbo in full domestic bachelor mode. Is a montage what you have in mind?

On another issue, hobbits have some rather 'futuristic' gizmos for ME- like pocket watches and grandfather clocks- would it be too much to have a clock which also has the day?- the reason I am thinking this is the book goes from Gandalf scratching the secret sign on Bilbo's door straight to the appointed time for Gandalf to arrive for tea. A clock with the day on it would be a simple and easy way to handle this transition. And if the clock/calendar is on the mantelpiece then it gives us something to stick the letter behind so its visible but not blatantly obvious.

I'm glad I have been able to contribute some wisdom
Can we keep the tune from the animated Hobbit for the dishwashing song???? IT"S SO CATCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree entirely that the instruments used should be those described and with your general sentiments regarding the handling of the songs.

I think there are key visual bits of the party which have to be retained- Gandalf sitting beneath a glowing cloud of green smoke rings looking every inch the wizard. And the changes in the light from evening to night and the firelight casting the nodding shadow of Gandalf's beard against the wall. (In fact that last image could be used to fade out on and then pack in as another song ends to imply the amount of time that passes- the dwarves play for quite a long time in the book- that or the old fireplace fade to fire burning low).

hey, just for my muddled brain, can we try not to write so much at once???? My mind is pretty focused on school at the moment, so its hard for me to keep up, mentally. Which also could be because of my ADD...

alright. I'll come back from time to time, and someone just give me a quick sum up. ONWARD MEN!!!!!

Hail, Hail Manwe- good to hear from you again.
You're right about the mail ,don't have my book to hand but I think he has them in his waistcoat pocket when he goes to the doorstep for his smoke- he pointedly sits down and reads them in the hope Gndalf will go away.
I had though to just have them on a table by the door but I like your idea better of havng them behind the clock as an excuse to show the time an day

Are you propsing we do away with the Bag End porch and the seat Bilbo sits on to read his mail and address Gandalf?
Surely there can be continuity still, the Bag End of the LoTR films is more than half a century in the future- surely even in the Shire there might be minor changes to the Bag End garden (if for no other reason than for the Gamgees to justify their jobs!)

Well Odo, just visit Tolkien's childhood home, because that'swhat he based Bag End off of. And also, what if the Hobbit movie is so completely lost that they just throw a bone to the dogs to be ripped apart (meaning, post the script online for fanatics like us, and we rip it apart and make it right!) That would only happen if the Hobbit REALLY falls apart and MGM is never sold!
Ha! maybe we should just raise 4 billion dollars to pay off their debts...

Hail !! Grey Pilgrim.

I trust you mean us ? You will be joining in won't you ?

Never mind your lack of imagination, Grey Pilgrim - I have more than enough for both of us! (Of course, I say it very humbly! I'm not all puffed up like a certain brother of mine ).

Where are we at, btw?

Intro: Overhead shot of Hobbiton showing the Mill and the Hill and the Water - moving down through Bilbo's front door to show all his rooms (some rooms totally devoted to clothes and several pantries?) and Bilbo himself fussing around, at last dusting the mantelshelf? Mmmm... Might he take a small pile of letters stacked on the mantelshelf or a table? He goes out to stand in the porch with pipe in mouth, his letters still in hand but forgotten for the moment as he enjoys the sunshine?

Listening now! [size=150:s53gpmq6]Hey everyone! [/size:s53gpmq6]I'm listening...!

With regards the dialogue between Gandalf and Bilbo I see very little need for change. I would remove the word 'tobacco' from Bilbo saying, "a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors" and just leave it as " a very fine morning for a pipe out of doors."
And some cuts from Blbo's longer speech where he remembers who Gandalf is, reduce it to something like this;

Bilbo: Gandalf, Gandalf! Not the wandering wizard who who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants? Not the Gandalf that used to make such excellent fireworks! I remember those! Old Took used to have them on Midsummer's Eve. Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures? Bless me, life used to be quite inter-I mean, you used to upset things badly in these parts once upon a time. I had no idea you were still in business."

Other than that I would leave that scene as is.

How about this for the first part of the party scene.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo is nodding into sleep, the remains of his late afternoon snack are on the table before him. A loud ring at his door awakens him and his eyes snap open.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Bilbo: Gandalf! Oh dear I had quite forgotten.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo rushes into his kitchen and comes back with a pot of tea, an extra cup and saucer and a plate of seed-cakes. The door rings again and Bilbo rushes down the hall to answer it.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Bilbo (opening door): I am so sorry to keep you wait....

[i:2rbjjrkt]There is a dwarf with a blue beard tucked into his golden belt, and very bright eyes under a dark-green hood standing on the doorstep. The dwarf immediatley walks in as if expected and hangs his hood up.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Dwalin: Dwalin at your service!

Bilbo (lloking confused): Bilbo Baggins at yours!

[i:2rbjjrkt]The two stand and stare at one another for an awkward moment.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

I am just about to take tea: come and have some with me."

[i:2rbjjrkt]He leads Dwalin into the parlour but no sooner has he done so than the door bell rings again.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Excuse me.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo hurries back to the door and opens it.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

So you have got here at......

[i:2rbjjrkt]On the doorstep is an old-looking dwarf with a white beard and a scarlet hood. He too hops inside as if expected and hangs up hs hood.
[/i:2rbjjrkt]
Balin: Balin at your service! I see they have begun to arrive already.

Bilbo: They!

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo leads Balin into the parlour and once more the door bell rings.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Balin: Fetch some more seed-cake whilst your out there.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo hurries back to the door.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Bilbo: Gandalf for certain this time.

[i:2rbjjrkt]He opens the door to find two more dwarves, with blue hoods, silver belts and yellow beards. They walk straight in and hang their hoods beside the others.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Bilbo (wearily) What can I do for you, my dwarves?"

Kili: Kili at your service.

Gili: And Fili.

Kili: Dwalin and Balin here already, I see. Let us join the throng.

Bilbo (as he leads them to the parlour): Throng!

[i:2rbjjrkt]Again the door bell rings, louder this time. Bilbo scuttles off again to answer it. This time there are five dwarfs. Each one enters, hangs their hood, gives their name and walks passed the stunned Bilbo to the parlour.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Dori: Dori at your service.

Nori: Nori at your service.

Ori: Ori at your service.

Oin: Oin at your service.

Gloin: Gloin at your service.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo follows them into his parlour which is now full of dwarves.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Dwalin: More cakes.

Balin: and beer.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo hurries off into the pantry and comes back with several plates of cakes but no sooner has he given them to the dwarves when there comes a loud knock on the door. The sound of someone banging hard with a stick.
Bilbo rushes back to the door.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Bilbo: This is the most awkward Wednesday I have ever had!

[i:2rbjjrkt]The door is thumped agan and Bilbo pulls it open, much to fast for in onto the mat falls three more dwarfs. A fourth, very fat dwarf teeters behind the others then falls on top, there is series of loud groans from those beneath and the squeak of a musical instrument being squashed. Behind the pile of Dwarfs Gandalf stands, leaning on his staff and laughing.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Gandalf: Carefully! It is not like you, Bilbo, to keep friends waiting on the mat, and then open the door like a pop-gun! Let me introduce you,

[i:2rbjjrkt]Gandalf helps Bombur up from atop the groaning others.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

This is Bombur, Bifur, Bofur

[i:2rbjjrkt]With the rest standing the only dwarf still on the ground, and at the bottom of the pile and not looking happy about it, is an important dwarf with a sky-blue hood with a long silver tassel. Gandalf helps him up.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

And especially Thorin Oakenshield.

Bilbo: I am so sorry.

Thorin (grumpily) Yes, well don't mention it.

Gandalf: Now we all here! Quite a merry gathering! I hope there is something left for the late-comers to eat and drink!

Bifur: I'd like some rasberry jam and apple-tart.

Bofur: And mince-pies and cheese.

Bombur: And pork pie. ([i:2rbjjrkt]everyone looks at the fat Bombur[/i:2rbjjrkt])And a salad.

Dwalin (from the parlour): And more cakes-and ale- if you don't mind.

Gandalf: Put on a few eggs, theres a good fellow.

[i:2rbjjrkt]Bilbo, thrown by the evenings events, just nods and heads to the pantry.[/i:2rbjjrkt]

Gandalf: And just bring out the cold chicken and pickles.

Bilbo: He seems to know as much about the inside of my larders as I do myself!