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I'll go with Sam. Oh poor poor GB. You miss the [i:m57s4zks]subtleties[/i:m57s4zks] don't you! Poor poor GB. Oh black and white, GB. You miss the point about Bilbo completely. Sadly, the explanation is already in earlier posts. Those who have eyes to see know what I'm saying. That's why they've gone with Sam, and if we have a voiceover, so do I. :ugeek:

NOTE: Thanks for renaming the Thread. Ahhh! Democracy at work! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
How about Golum doing the voiceover :shock: , " In a hole in the ground there lived a nasty thieving hobbit, BAGGINS, I want my precious, I WANT MY PRECIOUSSSSSSS" :lol:
I go with sam, too!
Well that looks like it's Sam then. Before I go back and edit it may as well get a vote on the other issue in the opening, The postman. Do we keep him or not? I've outlined in ealrier posts why I think he's useful but as with everything its up for the vote.
I think Jane has voted against and I know Hail was not too keen either. So get voting! (This is like ME got Talent, except voting is free and Simon Cowell doesn't own it- so get voting!)
This might have already been mentioned, but what would he be getting? I think we can keep the postman if it's a new pipe from some friend or other, so then he goes out and smokes it and then Gandalf shows up, ect.
Just his morning mail Tin- the main thing he does though his to tell the audience Bilbo's name. Otherwise its a while till anyone mentions it. When adapting I think it should be attempted to convey to the viewer at any given point as much of the info the reader would have at the same point. Before Gandalfs arrival Tolkien as story teller informs us of Bilbo's name and his background. There's no real way to get all the info about his background in without a contrived conversation with someone, instead we've opted to show bachelor Bilbo being domestic, but that still leaves getting his name in- which the postie can do, as well as opening the door for the viewer to enter and giving Bilbo the mail he later reads pointedly at Gandalf. Thats my reasoning behind it anyway.
I see what you mean Petty, and all i was suggesting was that he gets the pipe in the mail, so that once we've set up his story and background, then it can go straight into the part where he's sitting on his doorstep smoking. I think it would be an artistic touch to have his pipe play a role in the film, kind of a motif!
I vote to NO postman. NO need, I feel. He can pick them up off a table, stool, mantleshelf, buffet or bureau on te way out with his pipe. Mail and pipes. Big deal! Let's not make a fuss of them, please. They are the incidentals of his life. Let's not complicate the picture. :ugeek:

As to getting Bilbo's name out there... Can't his name be mentioned in the intro-voiceover? We are introducing him as a hobbit, and showing his home and neighbourhood, so why not put his name in somewhere? Easy-peasy, guys! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Ok- how about this we lose the postman. We have Sam reading the open paragraph but alter it to read "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit named Bilbo Baggins. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole,...etc
And on the final word, "comfort" Bilbo opens the door, takes in a deep breath of morning air (as Hail suggested) shakes out his dusting cloth and then returns back in to put away the dishes. He can then dusts the mantelpiece from which he can collect his mail from behind the clock and pick up his pipe before going out to his front step.

Is that acceptable to everyone?
I vote no postie.
His names on the mail which we'll see, if not, Gandalf says it on page four ! (Imo) I don't think that's too long. is it ? :?

:oops: We got tangled Petty. I was thinking how to get his name in the v/o - where you put it is the only place without mucking up the paragraph ! 8-)
It does muck the rhythm up a little Hail which I was loathe to do, but as you say, logically there's nowhere else in the paragraph it could go.
I like your idea Petty, it ties everyone else's idead into one. all in favor of it, say
A thought on the voiceover. If we have everything from the book starting:

"In a hole in the ground...."


"This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was (Bilbo) Baggins...."

And then we see Bilbo before the camera - dusting away.

Up to this, there are just two short (and famous!) paragraphs which Sam tells (reads) while the camera shows. All we need do is add "Bilbo" to the text before "Baggins", and he is properly introduced! :ugeek:

I think the rest seems good, Mr Tyrant! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Not sure Odo- I just read the bit you mentioned and I think its too long for an intro in a film and its partially redundant because the viewer is seeing what's being described anyway.
Much as I hate the thought of altering the opening passage, even a little, I think putting Bilbo's name in it is the easier, less messy solution. But as with everything we can put it to the court of popular opinion.
Not sure about voice overs at all, to my mind they are an indication of poor visual presentation or an overly complicated pre-plot. However my personal views aside, would not Bilbo have his name enscribbled on either his door, wall or gate? Allowing the camer view to take this in, and remove the need to add it into the narrative?
The voice-over isn't really to explain the story Nagual, it's an aesthetic choice, an homage to the book, much like Bilbo reading "On Hobbits" in the LotR EEs.

I vote NO on the Postman.

Well, if it says "Baggins" on the door, couldn't it go "Baggins (bibo opens the door) Bilbo Baggins" and so on.
[quote="Gandalfs Beard":31ac1wqc]it's an aesthetic choice, an homage to the book,[/quote:31ac1wqc]

.. Yes, and as such I'd like it to be left 'as is' if we can.
I agree with Nagual about the name, there are plenty of ways it could be shown (I think the mail's the easy way) and it's told soon enough.
If no-one else agrees however, I vote Petty's idea for inserting it in the paragraph !
I'm happy with having it on the mail, that not only gets us the name in but Bag End too. After he takes the morning air he can go in, be domestic, then collect his mail from behind the clock (getting it in shot for later) and showing his name and address on the letters- then out for his smoke and Gandalf. What you think?
How about if we voiceover until 'comfort' - we see Bilbo go in and we follow, taking in the rooms etc..- miss the next part (description of house) and say the next lines (Bilbo's name) as we catch up with him again at his chores ?

we crossed again Petty. :roll: <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Just getting this straight in my own head Hail!
We do the opening paragraph over the fly over- go in on 'comfort' see Bag End, see Bilbo doing his domestic stuff and then come back with narration on "This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins."
But where would we be going from there? I would suggest just the paragraph that begins "This hobbit was a very well-to-do..." and for brevity sake cutting the line, "you can tell what a Baggins would say...."
Hmmm, I haven't read every single idea in the thread, admittedly, but here is mine.

I think we should have Gandalf singing "Roads Go Ever Ever On" as the camera is set as if it was on the wings of some sort of bird. It flies over the landscape of the Shire, flying past a sign that you can clearly see that says "Hobbiton" -- Here is when "Roads Go Ever Ever On" would stop. Sam would then start the narration of "In a hole in the ground..." as the bird would begin closing in on Bag End, it being clear in sight. As the narration came to a close, the bird would rest on the mailbox, labeled with "Bag End" on it. The back-ground music fading as Bilbo would then come out of his house with his duster and shoo the bird away, taking his mail inside, the rest of the scene commencing.

I tried to tie some ideas together. I don't know how that sounds. :oops:

I don't find it necessary to really introduce Bilbo as Bilbo Baggins plainly. PJ pulled off introducing Frodo without saying "THIS IS FRODO BAGGINS WHO LIVES IN THE SHIRE".
'this Hobbit was a very well-to-do Hobbit' would be said during the walk through before the camera finds and homes in on him just as we hear -
'and his name was Bilbo Baggins'. - say no more. Bilbo gets mail/pipe, goes out.
I am not sure about "The Road Goes Ever On", Durin. Isn't it a song that looks back. Blbo sings it many years later [i:11frjrln]after [/i:11frjrln]his adventures. It also might clutter up the beginning. We want it simple, don't we?

Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but are we now saying we only have the FIRST paragraph of the text until the word 'comfort' as a voiceover by Sam. Then we see Bilbo but only know his name when we, almost accidentally (?) see his name on his mail? If so, it seems a neat way to do it. We pay homage to Tolkien, but don't overplay the idea, and then view Bilbo as he finishes the dusting, and then see him grab his mail, and watch him go outside to have a puff on his pipe? :-Jane
I'm with you now Hail. Yeah that could work but I think what Jane suggests is simpler and we should keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Just have his name on the mail and no need for any more voice over
Not sure about Gandalf singing The road song either Durin- Odo wasn't happy when I had Bilbo just hum a version of it!
And I don't think hobbits have mailboxes- there more an American thing. In FoTR the replies to the party invitations are delivered by the postman to the door. Plus I think it was decided on general consensus Bilbo should be the first character to get any screen time.
And if memory serves PJ introduces Frodo in the very unsubtle manner of having someone unknown knock at Bilbo's door prompting Bilbo to shout "Frodo! Frodo! Drat it where is that boy." Then we see Frodo sitting under the tree. That was PJ's solution to getting the main character name in. Having Bilbos name given by seeing his mail seems far more subtle to me.
How about we fly in over Hobbiton, see a few tiny figures, including the tiny figure of Gandalf walking along a road, while Sam says: "In a hole in the ground... etc.... etc.... and that means comfort." We go inside the hobbit hole and flit around his rooms devoted to clothes and to his pantries, then come to Bilbo as he finishes dusting the mantleshelf. He puts down his duster, takes the mail from behind the clock. We briefly see his name before he places his mail inside his waistcoat. Then he goes outside and takes his pipe and baccy out. :?:
Oh everyone's talking at once. How exciting!
Hmm, I suppose so. Something is missing here, though. :oops:

EDIT: I like Odo's post above me the best so far. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
I am beginning to understand how big a job it is to write a film script! :lol: What a wonderful adventure this is! :ugeek:
Thats fine Odo- but we still need Bilbo to open the front door though-unless its open when the viewer arrives? Or it can be ajar and the 'camera' nudges it open and goes in.
Although Blbo just taking in a lung full of morning air before going on with his chores seem fine to me.
This is fun- and busy!
Yes, subtle is good.
I'm off to sleep but if I may, I just want to say how I see it at the moment.

Open with flyover seeing shire etc... (as petty earlier described)
catch sight of bag-end, zoom toward and v/o starts 'in a hole...'
... 'comfort'. Bilbo has opened the door, stands (close up-deep breath-goes in)
we follow through rooms, 'this Hobbit was a very well-to-do Hobbit...'
'and his name was, Bilbo baggins' - see Bilbo at work, takes things, goes out etc.....

Sorry if i've just repeated everything.
Do you mind, Durin and Jane :x - I was talking first! (I think? :? )
This is confusing !! :? :lol:
Everything I agree with Hail except the second bit of narration which I dont think we need
You too, Hail! :lol:

I like your version - but I don't think we need the 'Bilbo Baggins' bit. I thought we were looking at stopping at the word: [i:1gru73h0]comfort[/i:1gru73h0]?
yes, sorry. I forgot already that was binned ! :oops:
I agree with both of you, Petty and Odo! :lol:
We still keep tripping over each other! :lol:
No worries, Hail. Good point Jane. Superlative thinking, Mr Tyrant. The room's a bit crowded... Everyone talking at once... Ouch! You stood on my toe Jane! :x
Right I've gone back and re-edited the script- its on page 13- have a look- you only need to read the opening up to Bilbo going out to meet Gandalf the rest is as was. If everyone is happy with it we can move on!
I think you have a very solid First Draft there, Mr Tyrant! I say: POST it. But let's still not be hasty! Votes?

NB What about chaning this to "THE HOBBIT SCRIPT: DISCUSSION"? The new threa then could become "THE HOBBIT: SCRIPT ONLY". Thoughts?

Let's not be hasty. I'm holding fast to the idea the actual SCRIPT THREAD, [b:ndt36ahl][i:ndt36ahl]when started[/i:ndt36ahl][/b:ndt36ahl], should contain ony AGREED script. No other talk or discussion should muddy it. The moderators can remove ANY and ALL non-script intrusions! :x More thoughts?
Happy to change this to discussions thread. I think we should have a finished drafts thread where I will post the opening if its agreed. And when the whole thing is together on the drafts thread we have a final round on changes or alterations to the draft and that will be the final version. So for the moment we will have 2 threads- this one for discussions and another for agreed final drafts (that's open to a final scrutiny at the end).

I vote for putting what we have in the draft thread. I think that's a vote from you Odo for same thing! So once everyone has had their say I'll move it, or we discuss it some more...
[quote="Odo Banks":tzyg6ei0]What about chaning this to "THE HOBBIT SCRIPT: DISCUSSION"? The new threa then could become "THE HOBBIT: SCRIPT ONLY". Thoughts? [/quote:tzyg6ei0]

Cool. 8-)

[quote="pettytyrant101":tzyg6ei0]I vote for putting what we have in the draft thread[/quote:tzyg6ei0]

Me too ! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Ok- its done. No comments on the final draft thread people- its for final drafts only! All comments should go on here.
So now we have the party scene to do next-given how long it took it us to decide on just the voiceover bit this could be a long haul!! (But a fun one).
Alright, for everyone's sanity, lets make a one paragraph description of what we've accomplished :mrgreen:
Not a lot, yet. Succinct enough Tin? <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
i mean, what HAVE we decided on??????
What we have set so far is posted in the final draft thread.
Briefly, we have gone with a short voice-over (sam) till we see bilbo,
then pretty much what's in the book up to the point where the dwarves have made their various food requests.
Next is the rest of the 'party' and first of all the scene where the dwarves 'clear up' the dishes.
As to the 'chip the glasses' song. Would it be an ensemble of the dwarves ? I think that it would look (and sound) good if each line is sung by different characters - maybe 1 or 2 at a time - sort of 'relay ?' style. Panning back and forth between them and Bilbo scurrying about in a panic !
what do others think ?
A good idea Hail. I think this party scene will prove the first big challenge. If we can get this right then it goes a long way to showing we can do the rest well too.
Where is Wise Odo? Songs are just his thing!
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