I mostly agree Marghana, well said, I too always need to go back to the haven of the books.

I have been away awhile dealing with two terrible things, so I miss things, for that i apologize. Illuvatar, it is not your place to threaten another member if what they say does not please you. That is the province of the council members only and we don't usually do that, only try to work things out.

This is disrupting things and causing tension. So from now on ALL OF YOU, i want you to say things, make your point in totally no combative form, no pointing out one another as a problem. Kindness, respect and careful wording please if you are not inclined to get along with one another.

Else in any thread i find unkindness, rudeness, condescension, or any attempt to belittle or hurt one another, two times more and the thread will be locked. I don't wish to see any of you leave here or not comment because another speaks in a way to make you feel badly.

On the other hand try to not take things personally if you can. I will try to be more diligent in reading all posts and see what i can do. It is a normal thing to have healthy debates, HOWEVER, Planet Tolkien is a place of sharing knowledge and discussion, not debate . We are here to enjoy one another , not line up in teams and take shots at one another. So please, all of you who are so precious and mean so much to us and make this place lovely and refreshing, please do your part.

Illuvatar, if you are feeling truly put upon, just talk to me or one of the others on council and we will see what we can do to help.

Galin, this is the very reason I'm such a fan of quality animated films.  Mere mortals, indeed.

And again, seasons of series over movies and trilogies of...

But as I have heard, the  Tolkien estate is absolutely nix on selling rights for the beloved Silmarillion. I guess they're right, but I do wish.

Remember Farenheit 451?  I would volunteer to memorize a couple of chapters, starting with "Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië".

Peace to all, namarië.

O.k. LeeLee...   :-)

i always think of Australia as a place of real wonder and mystery, especially the outback , well really almost everywhere there where there is space and wild life and flora of great beauty . And with her tiny bone structure and face, her already very Elven eyebrows and her ability to speak in an articulate and mannerly way Nicole might make a great Elf. And that is saying a great deal for me, for I am not in the least fond of seeing anyone who has had much to do with Hollywood take these roles. Too much exposure and it becomes jaded really.

While I post this with some hesitation -- ever wary of possible 'fake news' on the web -- the following linked article seems legitimate, and at least the French paper Le Monde appears legitimate (I edited the following slightly by creating a new paragraph for the section concerning Jackson)...

http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_translations/2012/07/was-first-felt.html 

'(...) The Tolkien Estate was not able to prevent an American cartoon called Lord of the Beans, but its comic-strip version was stopped. This policy, however, has not protected the family from the reality that the work now belongs to a gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it.

Invited to meet Peter Jackson, the Tolkien family preferred not to. Why? "They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people 15 to 25," Christopher says regretfully. "And it seems that The Hobbit will be the same kind of film."

The divorce is systematically reactivated by the movies. "Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed by the absurdity of our time," Christopher Tolkien observes sadly. "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has gone too far for me. Such commercialisation has reduced the esthetic and philosophical impact of this creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: turning my head away."

If a true account I hope the quotations are not misleading in some way, compared to the live interview. Note too that this is someone's English translation of the article -- and I just saw that Jason Fisher has also posted about the article...

'An English translation of the interview has already appeared on the Internet. Please note that I have not compared it to the original. As always, caveat lector.'

                Jason Fisher

Anyway, if true...

Anders Stenstrom has noted (posted 6 July to the list for the Mythopoeic Society)... 

In case you, like me, do not have a subscription to _Le Monde_, it is possible to buy a single issue electronically for about a dollar. This interview is apparently destined for _Le Monde Week-end_ tomorrow (7 July), which is electronically available now.
 

(snip of link) When you try to do anything, like printing or zooming, a window will open that asks you to subscribe, or buy the single issue. As soon as you have bought it you can print it.
 

The interview is on pages 4-6 in the "Culture & Idées" part of the magazine, with accompanying pieces about Tolkien on pages 1 and 6. The print function counts pages through the issue as a whole; to print the mentioned pages, ask for 117 and 120-122. (Possibly also page 1, since the feature is signalled in a head vignette on the first page of the issue.)

On p.5 (=121) there is a photo of a map. It is said to be a map of Bilbo's world made by Christopher when he was 15 years old. But it seems to actually be one of the four sheets of the Second Silmarillion Map. I assume _Le Monde_'s photographer took pictures of a number of maps, and there was some confusion as to what was what. 
 

Last I read he refuses to see the films, or at lead did so up until 2002. (snip of web address) Can't find any other reference to his thoughts on the film. He however seems to like the Ralf Baske Animation which is strange seeings it has even more changes than PJ.

Brego where are the comments you are referring to here with respect to the films, including Ralph Bakshi's film?

I'll add that John Rateliff (author of The History of The Hobbit) has posted about the Le Monde interview on his blog, with as yet limited commentary.

So, a few days ago (July 6th/7th), an interview with Christopher Tolkien appeared in LE MONDE, France's major newspaper.

 

http://sacnoths.blogspot.com/ 

I'll echo Jason Fisher's caveat lector... 'reader beware'... but this seems to be spreading anyway, not unexpectedly, and J Rateliff refers to the source as a major newspaper.

Ok but that's discussion board chat of course...

... I'm asking for basically the same thing I asked of Illuvatar earlier -- for example, something like what I've posted above (which still appears to be legitimate so far) --  quotes from Christopher Tolkien and hopefully a link, or directions to, the source.

Well memory can be tricky. things of course  

For myself I'll await an actual citation and source regarding these comments (if you remember maybe, or someone else can post something perhaps), before attributing them to Christopher Tolkien.

Brego wrote: '... with not only the Films (which judging by what he is quoted as saying I still don't think he has actually seen)...'

Why think that? Plenty of people have essentially said the same thing, or worse, about Jackson's films.

And do you think Christopher Tolkien has decided to go on public record with criticism of something he hasn't even seen? 

His comment re TLOTR films are simply action films simply don't hold true in my mind. Is he saying that there are no wars or fighting in his Fathers books?

Obviously Christopher Tolkien has said no such thing as 'there are no wars or fighting' in the books Brego.

That's why I don't think he has seen the films. There is a lot more to the films than just carnage and war.

He can't have seen them if he doesn’t agree with your opinions and measures with respect to a comparison between the books and films? Here's Tolkien scholar Verlyn Flieger, for example, with a brief summation...

Verlyn Flieger: 'It was aimed at the generations who've grown up on Star Wars and hunger for more and more action and greater and greater special effects. Jackson has turned an extremely sophisticated, complex and subtle -- and very long -- story into an action movie that I think satisfies the audience for whom he made it.'

Do you also think she didn’t see any of the films?

And to me it seems you think Christopher Tolkien is being unfair here -- it's at least arguably unfair to publicly criticize something one hasn't even seen -- any response to that?

Of course if you have read otherwise, please tell us where.

The difference is -- you actually claimed to have read certain statements, essentially putting words into Christopher Tolkien's mouth if not true -- but haven't backed any of it up yet. Incidentally, the above quote from V. Flieger can be found here...

http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/100102.html 

My question remains Brego: based on the wording of Verlyn Flieger's brief summation above, would you likewise arrive at the opinion that she hasn't seen any of the films (and incidentally, a response that she went into more detail after this summation would be merely evading the point)? 

Whether anyone answers or not, the question is to the point I'm making: such brief characterizations as we have here, not unexpectedly found in interviews of course, in no way need mean the person making them hasn't seen the films. 

So (to any readers of this thread) why not trust the natural implication that the person presenting his or her opinion has actually seen what is being criticized?  

Perhaps some Jackson fans might feel they have arrived between a rock and a hard place here: either interpret that Chistopher Tolkien has not actually seen the films -- yet chose to publicly criticism them -- which I think should amount to him being at least a bit unfair, although I haven't seen anyone else yet interpret things this way in any event...

... or simply accept that he has seen the films and accept his opinion of them. I would imagine that the problem for some Jackson fans here is that this is Christopher Tolkien.

And with respect to his opinion: when given so briefly, to my mind his statement is obviously enough about measure: too much has been eviscerated leaving too much of 'The Lord of the Rings' as an action film (basically a very similar characterization given by Verlyn Flieger in the context of her interview, in my opinion). 

Christopher Tolkien is entitled to his opinion of course -- and for myself I would love to see a more in depth analysis from him, but I never expected even this much (given that so far it appears to be legitimate).

And by the way, I'm not sure what the point is behind repeating the opinion that the article is 'badly translated', since I very much doubt, in any case, it is so mistranslated as to make white appear black.

I'll post as I prefer Brego, as do you

And the interview was posted here due to perhaps obvious enough reasons, considering the tangent discussion with Illuvatar earlier.

No one forced you to try and cast doubt upon the interview with your opinion, or to post that Christopher Tolkien said this or that, or forced you to post anything in this thread of course. So yet again, let's not try to paint this discussion as anything other than what it is.

If you don't want to comment about something or don't want to answer questions specifically at this point, then don't obviously. 

And I would guess that your interpretation, no matter sincerely arrived at, would be challenged at other Tolkien message boards too, at least with respect to this much: considering what it arguably suggests about Christopher Tolkien's sense of fairness with respect to public criticism.

But if that interpretation makes the most sense to you, then so be it.

As I said Illuvatar, I'll post as I please, as do you.

And considering your earlier statements in this thread, and subsequent promise -- and now considering this interview that I've posted  -- can I take it that you now agree that the Tolkien Estate has not made any deals with Peter Jackson and company, and is not currently thinking of selling the film rights to The Silmarillion?

It's a simple enough question regarding a side topic that arose in this thread (and side topics are not at all unusual on discussion boards), and one that you yourself engaged in earlier.

 And of course, in any case no one is stopping you or anyone from chatting about a theoretical Silmarillion film... emphasis on theoretical film however, so far at least.